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Thread: Shotokan groups

  1. #16
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    There are some accounts Tomosaburo Okano started karate in 1939 and then later started his kenkojuku group around 1941-42.--thus proving it had nothing to do with the JKA.
    Last edited by Bustillo, A.; 8th August 2005 at 14:16.

  2. #17
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    1) There are some accounts Tomosaburo Okano started karate in 1939 and then later started his kenkojuku group around 1941-42.—
    2) thus proving it had nothing to do with the JKA.

    Here is a thread that ran a few years ago.



    No other like it
    1) Can you direct us to some official website that states this? I have yet to find anything in English or Japanese that says different than the dates I have posted above.
    2) It proves nothing until it can be corroborated by a credible source.

    Even if he did start training in 1939 it would make him about 16 or 17 when started training and then 19 or 20 when he started his own style.
    I would hate to see what people think if some 20 year old kid showed up on E-Budo claiming he started his own style at the age of 20 after training only about 3 or 4 years……..that's pretty young.
    Last edited by Troll Basher; 8th August 2005 at 14:41.

  3. #18
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Now I am confused.

    You say this now:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    1) There are some accounts Tomosaburo Okano started karate in 1939 and then later started his kenkojuku group around 1941-42.—
    2) thus proving it had nothing to do with the JKA.

    Here is a thread that ran a few years ago.



    No other like it



    …..but on 09-29-2001, 04:17 AM you say this:


    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    09-29-2001, 04:17 AM
    Kenkojuku Shotokan is the school of Tomosaburo Okano. It was founded in 1941.It has strong influence from Yoshitaka Funaloshi's training methods.a vs Kenkojuku
    Technique
    JKA's Back stance is long, rear foot points out to the side.
    Kenkojuku's Back stance is shorter and the rear foot is turned inward.

    Shuto-uke , Knife hand block.
    JkA. Lead arm is extended out and away from the body.
    kenkojuku's knife hand block the lead arm is tucked in close and the elbow postioned one fist away from the ribs.


    Training method.
    In general, the emphasis in Kenkojuku was not directed for point tournament fighting. So, the sparring was more of a contiouous flow without the constant resetting to see who tagged who first. In one school I attended, a night did not go by without some type of tai-sabaki drills. And, it wasn't the cooperation partner training of some schools. If you didn't sidestep fast enough, you were hit hard.


    Perhaps some of you remember Toyotaro Miyazaki. He was from Tomosaburo Okano's Kenkojuku school.
    Fred Hamilton also taught the method.

    Antonio Bustillo

  4. #19
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    [QUOTE=Troll Basher]

    Even if he did start training in 1939 it would make him about 16 or 17 when started training and then 19 or 20 when he started his own style.




    I know you hate the nick picks but you keep mentioning he started a style which is incorrect.Starting a style and starting a school are two entirely different things.
    Hector Gomez
    "Todo es Bueno"

  5. #20
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher
    1) Can you direct us to some official website that states this? I have yet to find anything in English or Japanese that says different than the dates I have posted above.
    2) It proves nothing until it can be corroborated by a credible source.

    Even if he did start training in 1939 it would make him about 16 or 17 when started training and then 19 or 20 when he started his own style.
    I would hate to see what people think if some 20 year old kid showed up on E-Budo claiming he started his own style at the age of 20 after training only about 3 or 4 years……..that's pretty young.
    1. & 2.) I'll see if i can find something on the net, the sources I have are old magazine articles and kenkojuku literature. --don't have a scanner.

    Call it knit picking if you like but he didn't start his own style. it was and still is shotokan.

    Furthermore it is important to note that both Funakoshi, the father and son were alive and around back then and in contact with T. Okano when he started his research group. Apparently he must have been no ordinary karateka... saw he was talented and they didn't see any problem with what he was doing. If they didn't think he should be doing what he was doing we can be sure they would have stopped having him as a student and stopped all associations with him. --There are photos of Funakoshi in his school.--Therefore if the Funakoshi's didn't question him, who is anyone else to.

  6. #21
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    1) I'll see if i can find something on the net, the sources I have are old magazine articles and kenkojuku literature. --don't have a scanner.
    2) Call it knit picking if you like but he didn't start his own style. it was and still is shotokan.
    3) Furthermore it is important to note that both Funakoshi, the father and son were alive and around back then and in contact with T. Okano when he started his research group.
    4) Apparently he must have been no ordinary karateka... saw he was talented and they didn't see any problem with what he was doing. If they didn't think he should be doing what he was doing we can be sure they would have stopped having him as a student and stopped all associations with him.
    5) --There are photos of Funakoshi in his school.--Therefore if the Funakoshi's didn't question him, who is anyone else to.
    1) Looking forward to it.
    2) I see. But now people refer to it as “Okano ha Shotokan” which means “Okano’s version of Shotokan”.
    3) From what I have read Suzuki Shinjo, Kaneko Isamu and Takagi Yoshitomo helped him start his school.
    4) Or possibly Funakoshi wanted to further his dojo base and thought he might supervise Okano while he got it started.
    5) Yup, seen the photos.

  7. #22
    Troll Basher Guest

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    [QUOTE=hectokan]
    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher

    Even if he did start training in 1939 it would make him about 16 or 17 when started training and then 19 or 20 when he started his own style.




    I know you hate the nick picks but you keep mentioning he started a style which is incorrect.Starting a style and starting a school are two entirely different things.

    Even so…..after 3 maybe 4 years of training at 19 or 20 years…..still pretty young.

  8. #23
    Bustillo, A. Guest

    Default Kenkojuku

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher
    1) Looking forward to it.
    2) I see. but now people refer to it as “Okano ha Shotokan” which means “Okano’s version of Shotokan”.
    3) From what I have read Suzuki Shinjo, Kaneko Isamu and Takagi Yoshitomo helped him start his school.
    4) Or possibly Funakoshi wanted to further his dojo base and thought he might supervise Okano while he got it started.
    5) Yup, seen the photos.
    1.-5.) So you see there's no problem.

  9. #24
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    1.-5.) So you see there's no problem.
    I am not convinced just yet.
    He was still very young when he started kenkojuku....it would be interesting to know just what the set up was between funakoshi and okano.
    Also, seems odd he didn't just call it "shotokan"?
    why "okano ha shotokan"? why "kenkojuku"?

  10. #25
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    Robert,
    I don't know what point you are trying to make or why all of this is so important to you but some people are just more talented than others.How long did Jigoro Kano train before he not only opened up his own Judo school but created a new style?
    Hector Gomez
    "Todo es Bueno"

  11. #26
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher
    I am not convinced just yet. He was still very young when he started kenkojuku....it would be interesting to know just what the set up was between funakoshi and okano.
    Oh, sorry but this just seems too funny...we didn't realize Okano and the Funakoshi's needed your stamp of approval before deciding it's okay to do whatever their arrangement was back then.
    Good one Robert.

  12. #27
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by hectokan
    Robert,
    I don't know what point you are trying to make or why all of this is so important to you but some people are just more talented than others.How long did Jigoro Kano train before he not only opened up his own Judo school but created a new style?

    1) Because his name was mentioned
    2) He does shotokan
    3) he studied from funakoshi
    4) supposedly his style of shotokan is different than others
    5) this thread is about shotokan and it's off shoots and he is one of them

  13. #28
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    Oh, sorry but this just seems too funny...we didn't realize Okano and the Funakoshi's needed your approval before deciding it's okay to do whatever their arrangement was back then.
    Good one Robert.
    now you are just being imature.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher
    1) Because his name was mentioned
    2) He does shotokan
    3) he studied from funakoshi
    4) supposedly his style of shotkan is different than others
    5) this thread is about shotokan and it's off shoots and he is one of them

    Are you sure that's your main interest in this?.If your really that interested look up his older senior students in japan(you live there) and find out.That would be the best way to research something like this,since reading things simply off the net is not so reliable.
    Hector Gomez
    "Todo es Bueno"

  15. #30
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Basher
    now you are just being imature.
    Originally Posted by Troll Basher
    I am not convinced just yet. He was still very young when he started kenkojuku....it would be interesting to know just what the set up was between funakoshi and okano.
    ---------------------------------------------------

    It wasn't meant that way but if you think so. It was just hard to take your previous comment too seriously. Perhaps it came across a little different for me.

    Either way, if I find the other articles I'll paas them on.

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