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Thread: Dai Nippon Butokukai

  1. #61
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    Default Who controls the Butokuden?

    Quote Originally Posted by ichibyoshi View Post
    I disagree. I think it is worded in such a way to allow you to make that inference, but there is no such connection stated. Their wording also makes it scan like the Butokuden was built in the 8th century, and by extension that people have been aspiring to be prominent blah-blahs under the wing of the DNBK since that time, which is patently not the case and nor are they implying it. A publicist would say it's a well-written blurb, just on the tasteful side of hype.

    b

    Edit: they may imply that it is their base, but they are definitely not implying that it is their property, or even used by them exclusively.
    I'm sort of with whatshisname above (how's that for decisiveness?).

    I think it's simply just poorly written enough to read whatever into it. Kind of like a Rosarch inkblot test. If I were to hazard a guess it might have been written by a Japanese. Much, much better than my written Japanese but not idiomatically perfect.

    But they don't own or control it, unless the city of Kyoto lies to a lot of people.

    I just sent 'em an email to find out if they claim a connection. The history pamphlet I got from their HQ doesn't make the claim, but naturally enough everyone involved in martial arts in the area draws on and is very proud of whatever connection they have with the Butokuden, and use it when they can. I think the DNBK has an annual event there, and their website shows a couple of international events there over the past several years.

    BTW you want to see the Butokuden, watch this YouTube of the Kyoto Univ. judo team 'warming up'.


    (And that's why I don't do shiai with college kids. Like they say, 'no brain, no pain'.)

    The interior only shows a portion of the Butokuden's floor, but you'll get the idea (there are 2 versions, this one's soundtrack not as good as the other.)

    The entire facility opens up on a nice day, it really is a fabulous place for budo.

    Cheers..........
    Lance Gatling ガトリング
    Tokyo 東京

    Long as we're making up titles, call me 'The Duke of Earl'

  2. #62
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ichibyoshi View Post
    Wish e-budo forum had the "Reputation" function... This is such an interesting assertion that it deserves it's own thread. Specifically, in light of the fact that the All Japan Kendo Federation has implemented a policy of allowing foreign affiliated renmei to issue their own shogo titles. Everyone's invited to join me for beer* over in Sword Arts.

    b

    *BYO
    Hmmm.... an aborted version of this may end up on the forum, I hit the wrong button.

    Far be it from me to start a fight. As I said, I approached this topic w/ great, but maybe not enough trepidation I don't want any kendo buds swinging split bamboo at me....

    Not sure which assertion Mr Sheppard refers to, but maybe I get it. Let me expand a sentence. How's this?

    "While I'm not Japanese, from what I gather, to most the notion that some organization outside Japan .... without link to or permission from a competent Japanese organization .....is granting traditional, honorary, Imperial era, anachronistic Japanese titles is beyond laughable. Ranks up there with ninja fantasies, I reckon."

    How's that?

    The Kendo Renmei is granting the right to overseas? That surprises me, but not because they're granting the right to provide honorary titles, but because I'd expect they would be granted at a high level, high enough for the Renmei to want to centralize control. At what level do they require dan testing in Japan? When's a typical title kick in? But I will take my beer to the Sword Arts lounge and lurk.

    Meanwhile, do you have a reference?

    But, as I said, I understood the titles themselves to be a development (fabrication?) of the late Meiji / early Taisho era, in Imperial Japan, but not imperial titles, merely honorifics. I think Meik Skoss looked into the subject in more detail, and he's an impressive researcher; his notes would be a lot more detailed.

    I understand that postwar, only a few of organizations were 'granted the right' to grant titles. If the Kendo Renmei decides to pass that on, I'm sure they've researched it up and down. But honestly, AFAIK, they can do anything, there's no law against any of it.

    But when some outfit overseas, without discernable link to the original tradition, and often not even to Japan, starts slinging such around, am I the only one that thinks that sorta weird? I must have missed something.

    Maybe the Kendo Renmei acted out of self-defense.

    Cheers......
    Lance Gatling ガトリング
    Tokyo 東京

    Long as we're making up titles, call me 'The Duke of Earl'

  3. #63
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    Default I was a member of the Dai Nippon Botokukai - Looking for Sensei

    Hello Forum members;

    I have been attempting to locate my former Sensei Ken Shockey from the Daly City Butokukai Dojo for several years (on/off). I was hoping that someone here might have an email address or a phone number for him or his Washinkan Dojo in Daly City. It would seem that it should be quite easy to locate a Dojo by name, and yet I have been unable to do so.

    Thank you very much for your time.

    God Bless, Yona Jyotiananda (formerly known as - Yona Perl).


  4. #64
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Keegan View Post
    References to the Butokuden on a page marked "Honbu" suggest to me that DNBK regard the Butokuden as their base.
    Late to the conversation ... I can assure you that the International Division of the DNBK certainly considers the Butokuden as "their" Dojo. They refer to it as such. The language used in reference to the Butokuden gives it a Mecca style of treatment. From my experience, very few people within the DNBK realize the Butokuden is just a community hall owned by the City. Not to deny the budo related history of the grounds where the modern Butokuden is located, but it is certainly treated as more than it is by the ID DNBK. Wee bit of smoke and mirrors ...

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