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Thread: Yoseikan Gyokushin Ryu Jujutsu

  1. #1
    Dennis Mace Guest

    Question

    Can anyone give me any references on Yoseikan Budo's Gyokushin Ryu Jujutsu? I'd seen a demo on a friend's video, with Mochizuki Sensei's students exhibiting the different aspects of Yoseikan Budo, and it really peaked my interest--specifically the sutemi-waza of Gyokushin Ryu Jujutsu. I've tried checking for sites online, but I haven't found much information, and I haven't found much printed material either. If anyone can refer me to any more detailed information, printed/video/whatever, and the location of any schools and teachers of the system, I would really appreciate it. Also, if anyone can refer me to similar schools of Jujutsu, and general differences from one Ryu to the next, that would be great. Also, is Nihon Jujutsu a specific Ryu, or is it an umbrella term generically used for Traditional Japanese Jujutsu? On that note, can anyone offer thier perspective on Norm Belsterling and his Nihon Jujutsu video series in Black Belt magazine? If youd prefer to be more frank, instead of candy-coating your answer by posting it in a public forum, please email me at [email protected] . Thank you for your time and assistance.

    Sincerely,
    Dennis Mace

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    G'Day Dennis and welcome.

    Yoseikan Budo is a composite MA developed by Mochizuki Sensei that incorporates pre-war Aikido, karate and judo, with old style jujutsu and kenjutsu. The best resource that I have seen online is http://www.yoseikanbudo.org/.

    The style I practice, Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu has had a large exchange of techniques with Yoseikan and I can vouch for the effectiveness of the sutemiwaza. Totally unexpected and devastating to the joints, the only downfall (pun intended) is that you go to the ground which is not often appropriate these days.

    The site I mentioned does list a number of dojos that teach Yoseikan in the US, but none near you I'm afraid.

    Nihon jujutsu is indeed a blanket term that describes Japanese jujutsu as opposed to modern styles that have been invented elsewhere.

    I have never seen Norm Belsterling's tapes or books so I can't really comment. I believe that his "Nihon Jujutsu" is a modern composite style that has taken a number of traditional techniques from various schools and combined them, it is under the banner of the International Martial Arts Federation (IMAF). There is an overview of the system here http://www.imaf.org/usahq/njjoutline.html.

    Regards

    Neil

    [Edited by Neil Hawkins on 11-24-2000 at 05:59 AM]
    Neil Hawkins
    "The one thing that must be learnt but
    cannot be taught is understanding"

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    Mike Murphy, a Nihon Jujutsu expert, moderates a Jujutsu forum at http://www.uechi-ryu.com/. I think I remember him describing Nihon Jujutsu on the forums as a Gendai style developed in Japan to preserve the techniques of many Koryu styles.

    Jesse Peters

  4. #4
    Edward Williamson Guest

    Thumbs down

    "Yoseikan Budo" as it is referred to is, by far, one of the worst martial art systems I've ever seen!!!

    I once went to visit a sensei in Texas. While I was there, I asked him if there were any Aikido schools around. He told me that there was an advertisement in the newspaper that said "Aikido classes." He said he had not heard good things but that I was welcome to see for myself. So, I thought I would pay them a visit. I had no idea of what I was about to see.

    The sensei said that Mochizuki was the "modern samurai" and his teachings were the highest available. Hearing this, I thought they were about to do something truly amazing but that was far from the case. They were all wearing a bunch of funky a$$ keiko gi (if that's what you want to call it). And the sensei was mispronouncing every Japanese term in the book. Then, (after the scariest display of aiki I've ever seen), they proceeded to do "randori". This looked like the most watered down Judo with a few of the MOST AWFUL attempts at doing joint locks. The "black belts" couldn't even do half of their own techniques. They started getting mad at each other if the uke didn't respond or do the kind of roll that the nage wanted him to do. There was one occasion when one of the black belts was doing, what very poorly resembled, a kotegaeishi. When the beginner he was throwing landed, he rolled out of it and the senpai didn't know how to do an osae properly. Feeling embarrassed he told the kohei, "if you did that, I would just kick you" and proceeded to act as if he was going to kick the new student. (I assume he was new since he wasn't even wearing a uniform. Of course I'm told they don't even have to wear a uniform if they forget it or if they just don't feel like it. I saw a senpai wearing a uwagi with a purple belt and a pair of wind shorts. He said it was because his pants were dirty from a spaghetti stain.) James Williams, owner of Bugei Trading Company as well as being an expert in kenjutsu and aikijujutsu, wrote a very excellent article concerning aiki in general. One thing he said was that many people get angry when they cannot perform a technique correctly and instead of practicing harder, they instead just resort to a kick or punch and use some crappy remark like, "well that's what I would do if this were real"....meaning, "you'd better do the fall I want you to do or I'm going to kick or punch you". He furthered by saying that his sensei uses finesse and grace when performing aiki...not brutality, anger and kicking or punching because of a lack of education in aiki (which was obviously the case here). I wondered how they would try to do the techniques in a real situation if they couldn't even do them to each other. And, if they wanted to just kick or punch, why don't they just learn a kicking and punching system such as Karate (since they say they know how to do that anyway -- what a joke).

    I reminded myself the idea that there are no bad students - only bad teachers. I was soon invited to meet their shihan. Now granted, I've seen many poor level shodan and their shihan be quite excellent. So I thought that might be the case here as well. Whoa! - mistake again. Their so called "shihan" seemed even worse than their shodan level sensei. It was the most embarrassing scene I had ever witnessed in Martial Arts in all my life. His technique was down right HORRIBLE. I felt as if his own students felt bad for him and took the falls just to make him feel good. I will admit that he was one of the kindest people I had ever met in the arts but I am afraid that was it. He was trying to do what resembled a sankyo (they call it something else) and he asked me why it didn't hurt me and if I had injured my wrists or something. I told him that I just didn't feel any lock being performed and therefore it just wasn't working. He continued by saying, "let's do Judo instead." I guess he thought that was enough aiki for one day? Funny, I've never been to an Iwama or Aikikai dojo and they say, "hey, let's start doing another art since we can't do our own."

    Granted, I have respect for Mochizuki. But no more than any other sensei. Many people love to brag about him and his 59 black belts that he has earned. I find this a bit hard to believe even if you are extremely old. The Yoseikan says that they perform the techniques that O'Sensei performed before WWII. But I didn't see one of those techniques. O'Sensei also required hakama to be worn by ALL students. There were no belts or belt colors and he also didn't change the names of the Daito-ryu techniques.

    And let's not even talk about their kenjutsu. Oh my...

    Neil wrote:

    "The style I practice, Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu has had a large exchange of techniques with Yoseikan and I can vouch for the effectiveness of the sutemiwaza. Totally unexpected and devastating to the joints"

    Hmmmm....I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. What I saw must have been something totally different from you're referring to. Their "sutemiwaza" was performed worse than the way they pronounced it.

    I'm sure what I've written is going to be taken offensively but it is honestly not my intention. My contention is that I'm sick and tired of people who destory the arts and call it one thing when it is truly another. If you want to do Aikido, then do Aikido. But please don't take something that so many have worked so hard for and do it so incorrectly and call it pre-war Aikido when it is anything but that. Just because I practice empty handed techniques doesn't mean I practice Karate. So why in the world would someone say that they practice Aikido just because they believe they do something in the way of love and harmony even though it looks NOTHING like the way the founder did it. Yes, yes - I know it's Mochizuki's creation. But he still calls it Aikido more than anything else.

    Best,

    Ed Williamson

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    Ed

    It must be different because the guys I have seen are really good, the defenses are extremely practical and much more closely related to jujutsu than aikido, but you can see the principles there. Footage I have seen of pre-war Ueshiba did look like the Yoseikan stuff I've seen.

    I have to admit though that what I've seen came from Motchizuki Sensei in the early 70's, maybe it has changed since his death. The main thing about his style was the weapons work, taken from Katori Shinto ryu, Mugai Ryu, Ishin ryu and others it was very clean and realistic, totally different from the aiki sword seen today, although the jo is much more aiki than SMR.

    Regards

    Neil
    Neil Hawkins
    "The one thing that must be learnt but
    cannot be taught is understanding"

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    Originally posted by Neil Hawkins

    I have to admit though that what I've seen came from Motchizuki Sensei in the early 70's, maybe it has changed since his death. The main thing about his style was the weapons work, taken from Katori Shinto ryu, Mugai Ryu, Ishin ryu and others it was very clean and realistic, totally different from the aiki sword seen today, although the jo is much more aiki than SMR.

    Regards

    Neil
    ooopps I didn't know Mochizuki Sensei is dead.When it happened?
    I also saw few Yoseikan dojos, and wasn't very much impressed..

    regardz
    regardz

    Szczepan Janczuk

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    Hmm, now you've got me, I thought I had read that he died a few years ago and I was speaking to a Japanese Aikido Instructor last week about Mochizuki and Yoseikan and he spoke of him in the past tense.

    But I can't find any reference, so I apologise if I am incorrect.

    I know that most of the Yoseikan outside of Japan can be attributed to Mochizuki's son Hiroo, who's style is, I'm told, "less traditional" than his fathers, but Mochizuki senior was still travelling to seminars in the late 80's or early 90's. If the sytem has degraded it is a shame, th system did have a lot to offer.

    Regards

    Neil
    Neil Hawkins
    "The one thing that must be learnt but
    cannot be taught is understanding"

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    Hi Neil. Yes, sutemi waza will take you to the ground, but there is no reason to stay there! Did you notice Shihan's latest requirements for their correct performance, with followups? Kansetsuwaza was being applied from kneeling / half standing. The person performing the throw must always roll into an advantageous position.

    To those who have had poor experiences of Yoseikan Budo, that is sad. Please do not judge the system by a poor individual.

    Ross Lander

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    My own experiences with Yoseikan (in any form) is about zero. But a lot of people that I do respect hold Yoseikan and Mochizuke sensei (senior) in high regards.

    I have seen two demos with Yoseikan people, one from an exhibition in Europe, and one clip from one of the Aiki News friendship demonstrations (or whatebver these movies where called). These where only glimpses, and some things impressed on me, other did not. I didn't look at them that carefully, but enough to recognize some of the sutemi I had previously practised with deJong shihan (see further down).

    Apart from that, I can see performers from my own style, high ranked, and I just want to cry. They probably say the same about me though, so I guess it also depend on Your own perspectives.

    The sutemiwaza I've practised (from deJong shihan) that comes from Yoseikan is lovely. Great fun to practise, makes sense most of the time (though even deJong shihan admits that some of the techniques aren't probably the fiurst choice in a self defense situation). The neat thing about them (as with all techniques that would work but aren't the best choice for "real" application) is that they teach You very good lessons on positioning, unbalansing, etc. They tend to give You a lot of these things while doing something a little bit more challenging than the basics, and still enforces the same principles, the foundation of the system (hopefully).

    This goes (afaik) for a lot of the more traditional ryuha as well as for more modern, ecclectic schools/styles. When looking through the "eye-candy" the advanced techniques might be, they embodies the core principles, found in the most basic techniques.

    Okay, enough of me babblig. Good to be back on the forum after some time of "self-cleaning" and time spent away from e-practise.

    Cheers!
    Rico

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    Mr Williamson,

    I've seen little of the Yoseikan, but, you cannot judge any art by one experience. There are so many frauds and b/s artists out there claiming to teach any mainstream or obscure art that they can find. It's sad, but if an art doesn't have a presence in an area, frauds often show up teaching it. It's happened with every art that i've ever heard of.

    I've been told that the Yoseikan is an intersting blend, and has much to offer. Before anyone discounts it I would explore the credentials of anyone claiming to teach it.

    Cheers,
    Rob Erman

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    Question Yoseikan Budo Where?

    Edward

    I know that there are only 2 official Yoseikan Budo groups in Texas at this time (Nacogdoches & Waco). Which one one did you have your terrible experience at. I have been working out with the group in Nacogdoches that is headed by Phil Farmer and have found them to be top notch.

    You seem to have a lot of experience with many bad budo groups in Texas so I was wondering if you know of a new jujitsu teacher living in Nacogdoches. I'm not sure what he teaches but everyone I have talked to about his school says he is a fraud. When I was in San Diego in March at the Dojo of the Four Winds I was asked by James Williams if I had ever meet this clown. James said he came across this jujitsu teacher at Seminar in Dallas and said he had really distinguished himself. I noticed you quoted James Williams in your above post so I think you will find it interesting that he has encountered this clown before and found him to be a joke as well.

    Maybe he is the shihan you met in Texas a few years ago passing his art of as Yoseikan Budo, I think his name is Chuck something or other. If he is the Yoseikan guy you meet I would really like to know.

    Any help would be appreciated
    Thanks in Advance

    P.S. What style of Jujitsu do you practice?
    Jimmy Crow
    --------------------------------
    Time is the most precious asset of those who seek perfection in the arts.

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    Hi Dennis,

    I think Mochizuki Sensei mentions Gyokushin Ryu in the book published by Aiki News: Interviews with pre-war Aikido masters (sorry for the incorrect title but I don't have the book here). I think he says the style had a lot of aikido like techiques and sacrifice throws. I have no idea if the school still exists, probably not.
    Best Regards,

    Johan Smits

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    Default aikido or aikijujutsu

    I was just wondering why people say aikido in connection with Mochizuki and shioda sensei, as they actually studied aikijujutsu- as their scrolls said. I even read on a few sites that Kano sensei was impressed by aikido when watching Ueshiba Sensei but it was actually aikijujutsu at that time. Any thoughts?
    Erin O'Neill

  14. #14
    godefroy Guest

    Angry

    Hi!
    It's a shame to see that people are so wrongly informed about the Mochizuki family... And it's even a greater shame to have clowns claiming to practice and teach Yoseikan Budo.

    I will here try to put things right:

    1) Minoru Mochizuki is still alive, although in very frail health due to his age (93). He's been living with his son Hiroo and grandsons in Aix (south of France) for the past 3 years.

    2) Minoru Mochizuki's Aiki was mainly Daito Ryu, but he did input a lot of sutemi techniques from the Gyokushin Ryu which he studied with Shoden Kirishi Mokuroku. I do beleive that he also developped some techniques of his own.

    3) Yoseikan Budo in north America was --until recently-- mainly the form developped by Minoru Mochizuki. This is now changing under the influence of Hiroo Mochizuki, at least for all the clubs and federations that follow the Mochizuki's line through the Yoseikan World Federation (YWF).

    4) Yoseikan Budo is a very complete, efficient, and impressive martial art. It is extremely well developped in France (around 140 clubs at present). Sceptics can find the address of the world federation at http://www.yoseikan-budo.org/ or better should pay a visit to the Mochizukis in France...

    I hope this clears-up a little the situation. An article and a recent photo of the 3 generations of Mochizuki's can be found on the Aiki-journal at the following address:
    http://www.aikidojournal.com/article...rticleID=1133#

    Godfrey Zwygart,
    Yoseikan Budo Taiwan

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    Angry No Edward Williamson?

    I have not received any reply from Edward Williamson here or by PM so I thought I would revive this thread in hopes that someone else might have more info on this mystery Yoseikan Instructor that Ed meet in Texas.

    In fact I would like to know if any of you have ever meet Edward or know what style of jujitsu he practices. He lives in Arizona and Yagi, Hiroshima . If there is anyone out there who trains with him, or knows anyone that does please let them know that I am trying to get in touch with him.

    I do realize that he travels a great deal. He lives so far from Nacogdoches (in East Texas) but obviously comes through here a great deal because he seems to have extensive knowledge of every martial art teacher in town. We have a new Jujitsu teacher in town now who has no ability whatsoever, secret teachers that he can not reveal and no sense of propriety whatsoever. I figured that since Edward had written such scathing reviews of every other teacher from Nacogdoches here on e-Budo, surely he has something to say about this clown.

    I know this is off topic but I don't know how else to contact Ed since all the info in his profile is a bit confusing. Any help would be appreciated.

    Please reply if you live in Arizona and have never heard of him as well.

    I have a question for all of you:
    Are people considered trolls if they register under a fake name and post inflammatory threads? Or are they just little children with nothing better to do?

    What do you think Chuck?
    Last edited by JimmyCrow; 26th April 2002 at 22:09.
    Jimmy Crow
    --------------------------------
    Time is the most precious asset of those who seek perfection in the arts.

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