Is seiza a "healthy" position?

[Brian Owens]

...If you have "poor circulation" when you sit on your knees it could very well be that existing scar tissue compromises the blood flow. You may or may not be able to do anything about this. See your naturopath/acupuncturist and drink A LOT of water every day (I try to drink at least 2litres/dy. the goal is 4L/dy). Stretch the proximal sections of the gastronemis every day (where it connects in the joint complex). ...

Treatment from a trained massage therapist can also help. Cyriax...Cross Fiber Friction...goes by different names, but can be very helpful, as can PNF stretching, etc.

(Small correction, it's gastrocnemius.)

[Joseph Svinth]

So, out of curiosity here, how is a Japanese physique unique? What, for instance, distinguishes a Japanese physique from, say, a Korean physique or a Japanese American physique?

[hyaku]

So, out of curiosity here, how is a Japanese physique unique? What, for instance, distinguishes a Japanese physique from, say, a Korean physique or a Japanese American physique?

I would not say its unique to Japan. Population here stems from Korea/China.
But Japanese activities that require use of hips and tanden seem to be easier to motivate.

I check medical records three times ayear as to how much they have grown. Dont know if they do it in other countries but here we check sitting height too. Its obviously visible to the eyes but I checked my sitting height (I'm tall) again high scholl student to find very little difference. Pretty sure living on tatami has a bearing on this and of course food balance.

Changing for sure though. I have Junior high kids around 180 with 30 cms feet. Heads are different for sure. Very off-set square shape. Doctor tells me its because they put babies heads on hard floors and dont turn them. I had problems with crash helmets like a bucket and need small size. Difficult getting a squarish head in a round hole.

[Norman Dehm]

Seiza, I have read in some sources, was perhaps designed into formal ceremony because it ensured ones enemies could not surprise you so easily. Regardless of how conditioned you became, blood flow is restricted and coordinated movements after several minutes of sitting is not easy.
Of course this is not why the posture was INVENTED but perhaps more likely why it became so common in such a warring culture. Just some interesting viewpoints I thought when I read them myself

But why? What does sitting in this position do for you. What purpose for self defense is sitting in Seiza?

[hyaku]

Seiza, I have read in some sources, was perhaps designed into formal ceremony because it ensured ones enemies could not surprise you so easily. Regardless of how conditioned you became, blood flow is restricted and coordinated movements after several minutes of sitting is not easy.

Tea room doors would be good example of not being surprised.

I think Sekiguchi Komei's example of one of the reasons why its done in MJER can be carried over to other budo.

But in Japan its a daily household occurance. Japanese live on the floor until they are too old to get up and down. Go to funeral and sit and few people move for around an hour. In Japan they are born to it. Not a thing one learns as one gets older.

Two hundred years of civil war but I dread to think that one could not be able to sit down in seiza everyday with the fear of being attacked. Main thing was to make guests leave their weapons in the genkan.　It was taught by Ogasawara to the court and passed down as a gentlemanly/ladylike thing to do.

Best be a ninja as in the TV Jidai geki. Creep in while everbody is in bed and catch em in their undies.

[kuri]

This position is fairly modern....
The 'Original' position involved sitting with the toes bent under
By Original i mean during and prior to the warring states
As a point of interest when you sit with the toes tucked under it is possible to 'quickly' move in any direction - in addition toe flexibility improves the mobility of the sacro-iliac joints which in turn corrects the pelvis!

I dont want to sound technical! But Seiza in its original form improves the Gait (Walking) and Posture ability of the body. Whilst enabling you to move in any direction.

During the warring states period Court personell adopted a position known as Fudoza - where a small seat was placed under the buttocks!

If you have problems with seiza - rotate the big toe (Both of them!) 50 times each way first thing in the morning.

Many knee problems are related to toe imbalances (Joints effect the joint above and below) Stiff toes relate to Liver/Spleen imbalances, Knee problems relate to Kidney/Bladder imbalances both of which effect seiza!

C Roworth

[Brian Owens]

...toe flexibility improves the mobility of the sacro-iliac joints...

As one who has had training in anatomy & physiology, kinesiology, myotherapy, Neuromuscular Facilitation, Craniosacral Therapy, etc., I would be very interested in any references you can provide that give evidence (obtained in well controlled, independently replicable studies) of this phenomenon.

[shakra]

sieza as a health possition

Sieza is healthy for the mind I suppose but as for being healthy for the body the only reason I can think of is this:
If you smoke and practice a martial art you will know that the sides of your artires have a layer of fat slowley cloging it up. When one sits in sieza for a while 15mins+ when you get up the blood comes rushing through your legs sort of like opening a watergate or pulling a plug hole the blood takes with it some of this fat.

Sieza as a defensive issue

well from what ive seen when someone has particulary good shiko it looks like they sort of hover, sieza becomes a very good defensive position.
Even without shiko sieza is also good for drawing the sword.
One can also take mi ukemi from sieza allowing for a quick retrate from the attack or allowing the tori to get into a better defensive position ie. on his feet:P.

although sieza does become very painful it can be endured i have seen some sensies and students sit in it for about 4 hours.



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shakra

[Brian Owens]

sieza as a health possition

...If you smoke and practice a martial art you will know that the sides of your artires have a layer of fat slowley cloging it up. When one sits in sieza for a while 15mins+ when you get up the blood comes rushing through your legs sort of like opening a watergate or pulling a plug hole the blood takes with it some of this fat.

Although smoking has a link to arteriosclerosis, diet and exercise are larger factors.

If -- and I stress if -- this floodgate effect you mention occurs after rising from seiza, that would NOT be a healthy event.

Displaced fatty plaque from the legs is a major cause of heart attacks and stokes, because the dislodged bolus will often move from the lower extremity to the heart, lungs, or brain.

The resulting blockage is known respectively as a coronary, pulmonary, or cerebral embolism.

The healthy way to reduce these fatty plaques is to adopt a low fat, low calorie diet, and to increase physical activity. In this way the body will react to the coloric deficit by slowly scavenging fat from all locations in the body, including the vessel walls.

[Brian Owens]

Sieza as a defensive issue

...Even without shiko sieza is also good for drawing the sword.

May I ask how much training you've had in swordsmanship, and in what system(s)?

How would you rate seiza as a position that's "good for drawing the sword" compared to, for instance, tate hiza or iaigoshi?

[shakra]

I see I am probebley wrong

[kuri]

I tried replying to the E-mail but no luck- so I hope this helps!
Firstly I am Retired! but my crudentials are; Diplomas in Osteopathy, Physiotherapy, Cranial Osteopathy, Cranial Balancing, Kinesiology, Neuro muscular re-patterning, Recipriocal reflex re-patterning, NLP, Hypnotherapy, Sports Nutrition, Homeopathy, Herbal medicine - sorry!But just a few more! Bio-meridian medicine, Bio-set allergy elimination technique and some 'minor' ones like reflexology etc...
I also hold Menkyo Kaiden in Hichi Buku Goshinjutsu Ryu and 10th Dan ((Ku) in the Bujinkan dojo, as well as various Dan grades in different martial arts.

I tell you this so that you know that I am speaking from experince - the technical points regarding Seiza, relate to both the Sacro-iliac joints which in lesser animals (Fish for example) form the tail, in humans the big toes 'could' be equated to the edges of the tail fin. In Dentistry the correlation between the sacro-iliac joints and big toe, have been identified with TMJ function, which has been well researched. In Japanese Amatsu medicine the Head (On neck/TMJ) Pelvis (SI Joints - Hara) and the big toe are considered to be the Sanshin (3 areas) of Physical balance! "But in relation to the other "Godai" (Five factors) Hope that helps!
Oh regarding decreasing Fat intake - many research studies indicate that fat is not just good but vital for human health - fatty deposists decrease at a better rate by avoiding refined foods (Sugar, Choc's, junk etc) in combination with high water intake!
Regarding research, there is plenty, begin with a book published in the 1920's by Mabel Todd, then consider the many Osteopathy/Cranial/Dental journals that link this research.
Best of Luck
Chris Roworth

[hyaku]

I wonder if Ogasawara Sensei knows all this?

Sorry but I still think actually living in Japan gives one a better outlook on seiza. Here it has little to do with swords. I just wish people would learn to sit on chairs better here. Waiting in the hospital yesterday I got a bit fed up with seeing peoples dirty feet up on seats.

If we are going to talk about Japanese custom can we change the subject to snot swallowing. That's as much a custom here. It really turns my stomach when I am eating.

By the way these comments and previous ones are in no way meant to be derogatory towards the Japanese race. Just stating a few simple facts and trying to get back to reality of things.

[kuri]

Oh
I forgot to mention that i have just spent the past year living in Toyoshiki, Chiba Ken with my wife (Japanese from the Fujiyama/Hino family) in addition I have 'visited Japan 25 times during the past 20 years studying Budo/Ninpo, Japanese medicine, Aikido, Ju-jutsu, Karate, etc...
Regarding swallowing the phlegm...Ughh bad habit
Acording to Takamatsu sensei "Phlegm is a toxin that should be spat out!"
Most of my time in Japan, I have been very pleased to observe people remove footwear prior to sitting on the chairs...something western people could do with learning!!!!
But Every country has bad habits Ne!
Chris Roworth

[Jock Armstrong]

LOL I nearly dropped my hashi at a teachers' dinner. We were in a swanky Totally Japanese type place eating totally Japanese style menu and it got to drinking time. A lot of the teachers had colds and one teacher [nice guy- no english to speak of] came over to pour a beer for me and sucked back a lurgi and swallowed- I sat with a frozen grin on my face and skulled the beer. It was the worst beer I ever had!