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Thread: Keysi Fighting Method

  1. #61
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTO

    As far as time, take Kamiizumi Ise-no-Kami for an example. The man basically breathed, ate, and slept combat. (Shinto-ryu, Kage-ryu, etc.). We students of his system are inheriting approaches and methods that have been passed down and refined for centuries. That collective experience and thoughtfulness far outweighs what one man can accomplish in his life.

    As far as philosophical outlook, take hsing-i chuan. The point of it is not being able to deck the average thug in two weeks. From the outset, it takes a long-term, measured approach, teaching the students perfect bodily coordination in a martial context. This makes hsing-i players able to generate tremendous explosive power, absorb strong blows to vital areas, move with seemingly impossible speed, etc. In this case, it is indeed the forms that must remain the same, or otherwise you lose the lesson of bodily harmony. Once that harmony is developed at a basic level, however, one can move into fluid and unpredictable applications.
    Kamiizumi Nobutsuna from the 1500s...correct?
    No doubt some it was passed down, however, many of the styles changed emphasis over the centuries. Therefore, in some cases you are not necessarily inheriting the "it's all practical" format.



    Re: What you listed about Hsing -si. Parlor tricks pulled off in a controlled environment.

  2. #62
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    Kamiizumi Nobutsuna from the 1500s...correct?
    No doubt some it was passed down, however, many of the styles changed emphasis over the centuries. Therefore, in some cases you are not necessarily inheriting the "it's all practical" format.
    Which is why one must be discerning in what one learns. The spirit of the ryu, however, tends to be rather well-preserved, and hence the principles of what one must learn to fight are still there.

    Re: What you listed about Hsing -si. Parlor tricks pulled off in a controlled environment.
    How controlled are we talking about here? My old sifu basically asked me to come at him any way I chose. Sometimes he'd just sit there and let me pound him in the body a couple of times while smirking at me, and other times he'd step a hair out of the way and whomp me, sending me literally ten to twenty feet back. I'd put money on someone who's gone beyond the forms of hsing-i anyday.

    I'm a cynic at heart. My faith in the classical forms stems from direct experience. You may or may not believe me; all I can say is get thee to a school where the old techniques are living and breathing, and see for yourself.
    Roberto Valenzuela
    Owari Kan-ryu sojutsu (尾張貫流槍術)
    Shinkage-ryu heiho (新陰流兵法)

    "Be intelligent, but do not be artificially intelligent." --Kung Fu Proverb

    "Culture Check: Korean Arts still determined to make indigenous martial history from 4,000 year old cave drawings. France counters by claiming Savaate developed from hunting woolly mammoths before Ice Age." --The Nth Degree

  3. #63
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTO
    ...other times he'd step a hair out of the way and whomp me, sending me literally ten to twenty feet back

    I'm a cynic at heart. My faith in the classical forms stems from direct experience. You may or may not believe me; all I can say is get thee to a school where the old techniques are living and breathing, and see for yourself.
    You're assuming I haven't. For the most part, they are technically good at what they are doing and no doubt they have a good serious mindest about what they're doing. Even so....wasn't convinced and "they couldn't" convince me.

    Re your hsing si teacher and the 20 feet back...sounds excatly like what I previously described. Parlor tricks.
    Last edited by Bustillo, A.; 10th November 2005 at 14:08.

  4. #64
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    You're assuming I haven't.
    Actually not. I simply assume that you had a different experience then I, whether due to the quality of the classicists you've met or the nuances of your own preconceptions.

    For the most part, they are technically good at what they are doing and no doubt they have a good serious mindest about what they're doing. Even so....wasn't convinced and "they couldn't" convince me.
    Was this before or after you adopted the JKD mindset?

    One of the great flaws of JKD, I feel, is an inborn bias against the classical systems as being in and of themselves incomplete approaches to combat. This would seem to poison JKD's otherwise open-minded and practical outlook.

    Re your hsing si teacher and the 20 feet back...sounds excatly like what I previously described. Parlor tricks.
    Well, heck... if I can have an opponent come at me any way he chooses and use a "parlor trick" to send him into the wall across the street, then sign me up, trickery or not.
    Roberto Valenzuela
    Owari Kan-ryu sojutsu (尾張貫流槍術)
    Shinkage-ryu heiho (新陰流兵法)

    "Be intelligent, but do not be artificially intelligent." --Kung Fu Proverb

    "Culture Check: Korean Arts still determined to make indigenous martial history from 4,000 year old cave drawings. France counters by claiming Savaate developed from hunting woolly mammoths before Ice Age." --The Nth Degree

  5. #65
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTO

    1.)Actually not. I simply assume that you had a different experience then I, whether due to the quality of the classicists you've met or the nuances of your own preconceptions.

    2.) Was this before or after you adopted the JKD mindset?

    3.)One of the great flaws of JKD, I feel, is an inborn bias against the classical systems as being in and of themselves incomplete approaches to combat. This would seem to poison JKD's otherwise open-minded and practical outlook.

    4.)Well, heck... if I can have an opponent come at me any way he chooses and use a "parlor trick" to send him into the wall across the street, then sign me up, trickery or not.
    1.) In my case, definitely not based on preconceptions.

    2.) I'm not JKD man yet I understand where they are coming from and happen to agree with their approach to training.

    3.) A good part it has to do with they see today's classical methods as, overall, not practical and rarely open-minded at all.

    4.) Jackie chan sign me up....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimiwane
    Then again, it seems that Man Jack Wong may have been trained in bagua. Does anyone know?

    If that were the case, he would not have studied it so that he could avoid saying Wong had something Bruce didn't have.
    Yes, Wong Sifu is trained in Ba Gwa as well as Hsing-I Chuan, Tai Chi Chuan and I'm not sure what "external Chinese" systems. Wong is my Hsing-I instr. (well, he was until my twins were born - the parents out there understand.)


    The Lee camp's description of Wong is absolutely despicable. Wong is a kind, shy gentleman who was teaching round-eyes even before Bruce. That whole nonesense about the fight being about Bruce teaching caucasians is crap. Many of my seniors in my class were training with Wong since the 60's and they were of all races.

    Rob

  7. #67
    KenKenobi Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jock Armstrong
    Its the individual who wins or loses, not the style.
    Brilliantly put. And very true.

  8. #68
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    Among the best martial arts KFM l've read about it in a detailed and fascinating article


    This article link has not wanted to know more about the KFM keysi fighting method


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