So just what IS a warrior??

[samuraibill]

Me.......lol

[Andrew S]

My pet-hate term is "samurai", the way it's bandied about by the popular media over here in jingoistic references to sports stars.
Baseball players as samurai? No, they're ****ing peasants!.
The webmaster for my Aikido group's site used the term about me in their "member of the month" collumn, but I'll forgive them for that - talking about one's martial attitude in a martial art instead of nationality in a useless sporting event.

[Carlos Estrella]

Tribal Jurisdiction..i know EXACTLY what you mean...i work on a reservation, and half of it's members are on Meth and crazy as loons or otherwise corrupt.

The part that sucked was that when you ARE Native working w/ a tribe, the members don't trust you without ALOT of time and work and others think you're just as "drunk, stoned and corrupt" as the ones you're protecting.

FWIW: I was basically a glorified pow wow security guard, except many of the LE's I worked around knew me from USMC and other stuff (LE training, etc.) so in their eyes I was "legit," which helped on occasion.

Regards,

Carlos

[Inazuma]

I've seen 19 year old kids as warriors, side by side with 40 year olds... my dad fought in about 3 wars and most of his friends died for things they believed in...
warriors don't have anything to do with morals, or virtues or anything. a person who thrives on war (and i've seen my share), i don't want them as friends of mine, although we all serve a purpose in life i guess.
a warrior does just that, he wars, he fights, whether of his of volition, his choice, of someone elses (as in mandatory army service), people who deal death to other people. putting any other colors on the subject is to lose track of this fact, and most people, in my opinion, have a too rosy of a picture when it comes to warriors and samurai or whatever.
I'm not trying to belittle anyone's achievements at becoming a Warrior or anything, i'm beginning my path in martial arts at the moment as well...
there's no such thing really as an absolute good, and absolute bad, its all really a matter of perspective, although most people do need to believe that the enemy they are fighting is evil, and that they are the good guys (the enemy by the way, thinks exectly the same).
so thats my two cents, and you know, i could be wrong about it

[Ken-Hawaii]

Yeah, Amir, I understand what you're saying about our fathers being (war-type) warriors. My dad was a WWII B-17 navigator/bombardier, & spent over two years as a German POW. Surviving that, along with the bombing he did, you'd expect him to be anything except the soft-spoken person he's always been, at least around me. But no one would argue whether he was a warrior.

I'm about 54 years farther down the martial arts path than when I started, teach master's classes in judo & fencing, flew fighters in Vietnam, swing a mean iaito & shinken, & am still wondering what a warrior is in today's world.... I've gotten some great responses in this thread, but am still looking for that definitive answer.

But maybe looking for that answer is part of the quest.

[K. Cantwell]

For what it is worth, there was a show on Discovery just this past weekend entitled "Warrior: From Civilian to Soldier." (I think that was the full name.)

It really focused on the training necessary to form the warrior mindset. It started me thinking that a warrior is someone that is fundamentally (& irrevocably) changed by training and experience from the cultural standard. A warrior's job is to take another human being's life in defense of country, family, or self. This builds a wall between the warrior and the very society they are trained to protect.

A true warrior will probably never feel comfortable in civilian society again. They have just been asked (or forced) to do some things that separate them from "normal" 9-5 civilians with no similar experiences. Their feelings and perceptions have been altered, and I would imagine it's quite difficult to pick up life where it left off before the training began.

Warriors may seem to readjust, but I would bet that there is always something that keeps them just a bit outside the cultural norms in terms of perception and belief.

All of this is pure speculation on my part, mind you. I am in no shape, way, or form a warrior. I have enough problems keeping my freshman Spanish class on task.

Kevin Cantwell

[Gakkousei]

The part that sucked was that when you ARE Native working w/ a tribe, the members don't trust you without ALOT of time and work and others think you're just as "drunk, stoned and corrupt" as the ones you're protecting.

FWIW: I was basically a glorified pow wow security guard, except many of the LE's I worked around knew me from USMC and other stuff (LE training, etc.) so in their eyes I was "legit," which helped on occasion.

Regards,

Carlos

Seen that before. Friend of mine was Tribal PD at another reservation, and got fired for arresting the wrong person. I'm part Native, and they know that, but im still looked at as "whitey" by a lot of those guys. And from what i've observed, the Tribal cops exist mainly to protect the interests and assets of the tribe from the outsiders, such as Casino customers and such. Although fortunately on the reservation i work at, the TPD DOES have authority enough to bring the hammer down on a member or members if they are causing disruption, i.e. drugs, domestic disputes, disturbing the peace, etc. although i couldn't tell you to what extent they have this authority. I'm willing to bet, however, that arresting a member of the Tribal Council, justified or not, would probably result in a Tribal cop losing his/her job.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Well, I guess warriors aren't always friendly, even here in Hawaii. Some "samurai warrior" decided to liven things up out here, & it looks like he performed kesa-giri on some poor, unsuspecting guy outside a karaoke bar http://starbulletin.com/2005/12/02/news/story09.html.

I was one of several martial arts instructors who was contacted almost immediately by the local PD, & from the photo of the victim, it looks like the sword-wielder knew enough to do a deep slash with the sword. The victim probably would have bled to death just from that, but the attacker also used either a tanto or wakizashi to stab him in the neck until the guy was thoroughly defunct. Glad it wasn't anyone from our dojo! But this type of incident certainly won't do much to help iaido grow out here, either....

[charlesl]

But this type of incident certainly won't do much to help iaido grow out here, either....

Well, you know, people are kind of funny. I can see a certain type of person being motivated by to train because of something like this. The question is, do you really want them as students?

[Damien Mason]

I'm not a warrior, and I'm certainly not a hero. The only thing discussed so far that I'd be comfortable calling myself is a coward.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Maeda-Sensei is, thankfully, extremely careful about who he will allow to study iaido under him. With 28 students, only two of us have been allowed to study iaido without first having at least two years of kendo (& achieved shodan) under his watchful eye.

Sensei has also kicked out at least three students, two for lack of attendance, & the third for blatantly stating that he no longer trusted Sensei's judgement. That third person was also an iaido student, & I'm frankly happy that he's no longer around me with anything sharp! If anyone wants to join our dojo to study iaido based on the sword attack, I would certainly hope that Sensei would figure that out real quick!

Strangely, of the 28 of us, I just realized that only one student is active military, & just two more of us have any military service. I find that to be interesting, as I know that in the judo & fencing classes that I teach, the majority of students have been or are in the military. What does that imply about (war-experienced) warriors wanting to study iaido & kendo?

And an open question to everyone else in a dojo, what percentage of your fellow students have military experience? This may be worth its own thread!

[Scott Irey]

Ken,

As to your original question, I am afraid there is no definative answer. I believe the definition to be quite broad and relevant to culture and era.

As to your most recent question. We currently have not military or former military personel in our dojo. A member who passed away a couple of years ago was a former B-17 nav/bombadier who flew in the 94th out of Italy. He later became a P-51 pilot, but the war ended before he saw action.

Regards,

[johan smits]

I am not hindered by any knowledge about war or being in the military but I seem to remember that I have read something about the difference between a soldier and a warrior. Can't remember where but the main difference was that a warrior acted independently because he wanted to participate in a battle or war for reasons of his own (he could be bound by his alliance to a king or so but he was not under someone's command who could order him to go and fight).
A soldier (from private to general) is someone who is not independent but is under someone's command and follows orders.
The piece was interesting and my message does not do it justice but that was the main difference given.

For what it's worth.

Best,

Johan Smits

[Ting Chuan]

Mr Goldstein,

My .02 is that a warrior is someone who tries and struggles, falls down or gets knocked down, gets up and tries again only to come up short and STILL they go on.

Basically they fight the good fight, whether physically, emotionally, mentally, or spiritualy with no thought of reward or recognition; and when it's done they go on and think nothing more about it. They do the right thing even when noone is looking.

My mom was such a person with cancer, she fought it til the end and I think she knew she was losing, but she fought anyway.

And as to your other question; in the little group down here in Texas that I am part of- I am active duty military (enlisted) with 16 years in, theres another guy going through pilot training, and one more enlisted guy with I think four years in. We're located in the same town as Naval Air Station Corpus Christi so our percentage of military folks is higher.

Cheers!


Rob Acox

[meat]

I think the biggest problem with defining what exactly the word "warrior" means is our perception of things today. People tend to equate the word warrior with the activity of fighting instead of war. Hence anyone can now be called a warrior. Whether you are fighting depression, fighting a court case, fighting anything, people seem to go overboard and equate that with being some sort of warrior.
There is nothing wrong with admiring a person for overcoming hardship, but that's exactly what life is. Everyone has hardships, everyone has struggles. Some suffer more than others, but life is all about overcoming inner battles, hardships, and so on. To call someone a warrior for this just doesn't make sense to me.

Watching many UFC and Pride matches, I hear the word warrior bandied around alot. These men are extremely skilled, and very tough. They fight for a living. Most would think they are quite close to the money as far as being a warrior. Yet much of what I have seen in those competitions disgusts me. I've seen people speared head first into the ground, and worst of all the other night, I watched as Vanderlei Silva stood over a competitor in the guard and stomped his face. This was after another match in which he kicked his opponent, soccer style, in the neck as he was half knocked out. I believe those that behave in such a manner, despite skill, are nothing more than animals. Knowing when enough is enough, and having respect for the opponent/enemy and not just regarding them as something to kill is I think an extremely important aspect of a warrior.

What do I think is a warrior? I'm only 25, I'm not going to presume that I know the answer to such a deep question. But I do know what I believe a warrior is not. It is not someone who overcomes certain obstacles in life, it is not someone who is simply a great fighter. It is not necessarily someone who has been to war (as someone earlier pointed out). I think an earlier poster was close to my thoughts in that a warrior is the person who can go that extra step in battle, not someone who just survives, but someone who thrives.