5.56 in Iraq

[John Lindsey]

Arthur,

The State Department only controls us Security Contractors, not the soldiers. Sorry for the confusion. If you are not under a DOD contract, then you can use what you want. The Interior Ministry is supposed to monitor all weapons in Iraq, but I guess they are a bit too busy withe the torture scandal and banning beer at the airport now...

The Iraqi public are allowed to own one weapon for self protection. Most of them have a AK47 or a pistol.

[ShaneLayton]

Hey John,

I have heard about these things. They seem interesting. I'll let you know if I come across anything about the "almost" hollow point for military use.

How often do ya'll get to the range over there? Are they making you carry ball 9mm ammo?

At work I carry a Beretta 92D Cenution (ugh, I HATE this gun. Its definitely not a combat pistol. Being in law enforcement I would rather have my Glock (my personal is a Glock 22, .40 Cal. loaded with Hydra-Shok Personal Defense Rounds). At least we get decent ammo (Remington Golden Sabre hollowpoints). We keep hoping the powers that be will let us transition to the Sig (they have this silly rule about an exposed hammer).

If you can, PM me recruiting or contact info on the company you work for (unless you are contracted directly to State). It sounds interesting. I don't have any SpecOps time, unless you count the fact that every deploying Marine grunt unit is Special Ops Capable (hell it was an 81mm mortar platoon that performed the TRAP for Capt. O'Grady in Bosnia, I think the Army would have assigned that mission to a high-speed Ranger unit). Of course, it would interfere with my reenlistment options, but I am looking to keep ALL of my options open.

Thanks,

Shane

[George Kohler]

At work I carry a Beretta 92D Cenution

Ugggghhh, That sends shivers down my spine.

[ShaneLayton]

Ugggghhh, That sends shivers down my spine.

Because the gun sucks, which it does, or because I can't spell "Centurion?" Let's see, in addition to the 92D the powers that be have determined that our intermediate weapons will be the PR-24XTS and OC with no more than a 5.5% formula. Oh, and for DT they have this thing called a flow drill. Never mind that I have been doing Bujinkan for 20 years, I almost got kicked out of class when I rolled as my partner did omotegyaku (they call it an INSIDE wrist twist). Of course, I did roll over his ankle (his fault, I went where he took me) which took him out of DT class for a couple of days. But, alas, our troopers are testing soon.

Why do I work for this place? Because they were hiring and pay pretty well. I used to work for a couple of real PD's in Texas (Lake Worth and Trophy Club, a suburb of Denton not a strip club in Houston) until one unfortunate night almost 5 years ago (story for PM, not a public forum). By the way, George, when I was with TC our investigator was married to the chief at Melissa, I believe. Small world, neh?

Shane

[John Lindsey]

Shane,

I get more range time on leave then in Iraq. They are building a new range in the Green Zone for everyone to use. I do a lot of dry firing.

As for ammo, good stuff can be hard to come by. I do have some black hills 77g 5.56 I save for special occasions. Majority of my stuff is green tip and tracer.

[Mick Travis]

What guns does the state department limit contractors to using?

At first I had heard they were using a hodgepodge of Iraqi surplus captured guns because of prohibitions on bringing guns into Iraq..

thanks

Mick Travis

[John Lindsey]

Back in the days after the war, AKs were common because they were available and because it took time to get M4s into the country. Time to get the paperwork approved, orders filled etc. HK has refused to sell weapons to more than a few companies because they were destined for Iraq!

The reason they don't want us to use an AK is because an M4 acts like a far range good guy indicator. If you see a guy get out of a car with an AK, he can be a good or bad guy. Most Local Nationals (Iraqis) carry the AK anyhow, at least in our company.

I have seen weapons as big as 50 cals being used, but nothing greater than that, and no explosives at all. Thus, no frags, 203, etc.

One reason for the tight control from State Department is because they don't want people riding around with crappy weapons that might fail. We are also limited to modifications to our weapons for the same reason.

I carry a M4 Bushmaster with a 11.5 inch barrel. I actually favor a longer barrel now, up to 16" due it having a higher FPS and thus the bullet with fragment better, which is the way the it kills faster. With a slower round, you just poke holes thru people.

[Mick Travis]

Tank you, John.

I can see why they prefer contractors carry M4s so that they will not be confused with insurgents and such. But are you just limited to M4s and no other western guns like G3s or FNs? Maybe because there were not likely any M4s in Iraq before the occupation while I imagine there were FNs and G3s floating around.

mick travis

[George Kohler]

Because the gun sucks, which it does, or because I can't spell "Centurion?"

Sorry for not answering ealier, I wasn't keeping an eye on this forum in a while. To answer your question, IMO, Beretta pistols suck.

I used to work for a couple of real PD's in Texas (Lake Worth and Trophy Club, a suburb of Denton not a strip club in Houston) until one unfortunate night almost 5 years ago (story for PM, not a public forum). By the way, George, when I was with TC our investigator was married to the chief at Melissa, I believe. Small world, neh?

Shane

Yep, small world.

[John Lindsey]

Tank you, John.

I can see why they prefer contractors carry M4s so that they will not be confused with insurgents and such. But are you just limited to M4s and no other western guns like G3s or FNs? Maybe because there were not likely any M4s in Iraq before the occupation while I imagine there were FNs and G3s floating around.

mick travis

Mick,

You don't want to have a mix of weapons on your team. You want everyone to have the same weapons so you can all use the same magazines. For every different weapon you have, you have to support it with spare parts, etc. That is why they tend to keep things all the same. That is also one reason you don't see any 45s over here. They tend to require more work to keep them running, and ammo is hard to get. With a Glock, you rarely have to fix anything on it.

Also, American contractors are raised on the m16 system. I would not want to use a G3 or FN as my main rifle. I don't have the muscle memory and skills history with these weapons that you need in combat.

[Jock Armstrong]

Yep- keep it simple. Uniform weapons- makes logistics much easier.plus your buddy can toss you a mag if you are in the pooh.

[ShaneLayton]

Sorry for not answering ealier, I wasn't keeping an eye on this forum in a while. To answer your question, IMO, Beretta pistols suck.

I agree. The folks in our agency who picked the Beretta may be retiring soon. Maybe then we can get them to go with a better pistol. They actually said that one of the reasons they picked the 92D was because it was NOT designed to be a "combat" pistol. They don't want cops carrying "combat" pistols here. They'd prefer to have a cop dead than to actually train the officers well enough to trust them with a "combat" pistol.

Off duty I carry my Glock 22, but they'll never adopt Glock. They like having that external hammer. Maybe they'll go with a Sig. I can live with that. We have to leave our duty weapon at work when we go home, which is fine with me.