Does Gotente, Suide or Uchinade still exist?

[Paul Hart]

I was wondering on the opinions of the members here if true "Old Style" Okinawa fighting arts still exist in thier original form. Palace Hand, Ansestor Hand, or Okinawa Hand are among the names of these systems. Would anyone be interested in knowing about these or is it just old news? I practice a style that still uses the old kata but have found nothing more. The Motobu Gotente taught today is basically Karate by a different name, IMHO. It has Pinan Kata and everything else.

Paul Hart
http://allshorin.org

[robertmrivers]

You probably speak of Seidokan...of Shian Toma who was a student of Uehara...13th Soke of Motobu Udundi (Gotente). Motobu Chosei is the current Soke of the actual Udundi...it is alive and well. Motobu Udundi does not do the Pinans...There are plenty of videos out there featuring Uehara Seikichi Sensei that you can get an idea from.

Overview of MOtobu Sensei's visit in July can be found here:

www.kenkyukai.org

Best

Rob Rivers

[Paul Hart]

Yes, I do speak of Seidokan. I woder what is practiced in this Udundi system that you speak of. Is the curicculum available? I know that Matsumura, after learning the Palace Hand art went to China and learned the Shaolin arts. Upon his return he joined them together to make Uchinade, or Okinawa Hand. The Palace Hand art is a Minamoto art handed down by the Motobu lineage, or thus it was taught this way by my Sensei. Sensei also said that Uehara Seikichi Sensei only learned a small portion of the Motobu family art. He was acquainted with Choyu Motobu and this information was said to have come from the source. I know Motobu Choyu Sensei did do some forms like Huquan and Baihe. These forms I do not believe are now taught. I am sure we each change our art to fit us and learn what we can from those who agree to allow us to gain knowledge from them.

If you are curious, my Sensei was Hanashiro Shinyei, who studied under Chosho (not Choshin) Chibana who in turn studied under Sokon Matsumura. He passed away earlier this year at the age of 99.

[Paul Hart]

Ooops, after reading my last post I got the idea that I was infering that Uehara Seikichi Sensei didn't know what he was doing. I did not mean that at all. I have been called to the carpet by a senior about this and I apologize. I meant that Motobu was said to have kept some of the art among family only and I wonder what if anything may have been left behind. As I said, I know some Kata were practiced that are not practiced anymore but this is second hand knowledge. I have a video of Uehara Seikichi Sensei that is around 3 hours long, it is a home made video of his demo at the World Tourney in Oki as well as his class over a few weeks. He was a very skilled Martial Artist.

[Tatsu]

Suidi stil exists, but with a different name and slightly altered technique. It's the karate from Hohan Soken's lineage.

Bryan L. Cyr

[Paul Hart]

Hohan Soken said in an interview that the Karate he taught was not the Karate of Bushi Matsumura. Also, with the three Naihanchi and the Pinan it would lead me to believe that it was a form of Itosu based Karate, not the Gotente of Matsumura Sokon. I have a copy of this interview recorded and he does say this. I always wondered why Matsumura Seito didn't look more like Motobu Ryu Udundi. Any explanation of this?