One style over another?

[Katsu!]

Looking through the forums it seems many not only favour their own style but also place it above others.

So lets discuss the different styles and their strengths and short comings.

I am interested in this to learn about other styles training methods and backgrounds.

M.Miletic

[Blackwood]

Of course I'm going to place my style over yours or anyone elses. Because it is my style. I don't know the other styles (at least not the ones I haven't worked on).

So, obviously, the others don't work for me. But mine works for me. And that is the key.

The individual's specific style is always going to be seen is superior to that individual, right or wrong. For that individual, at that point in time, they are correct. That is why it is such a volatile topic. The individual has invested so much time and effort into it, that it is a sensitive topic.

That is not to say that other styles may offer things that another doesn't, or have a different focus in how they do certain things.

[kyobukan]

Katsu
what's your style and what is it's strength and short coming?

[dojo]

It's indeed hard to be objective about your own style. We all invest time, money and passion in our chosen styles, so we seem to be inclined to think about them as better than the others

I am doing Karate Shotokan. A good style if TAUGHT and learnt properly, but due to the existance of a lot of McDojos, the style is no longer considered good.

[Margaret Lo]

It's indeed hard to be objective about your own style. We all invest time, money and passion in our chosen styles, so we seem to be inclined to think about them as better than the others

I am doing Karate Shotokan. A good style if TAUGHT and learnt properly, but due to the existance of a lot of McDojos, the style is no longer considered good.

Like any other widely popular karate style, there is bad shotokan as well as good, but who is capable fo considering the style to be "no longer good"? Perhaps you have not experienced good in your area?

What I like about JKA style shotokan: dynamic techniques, deep understanding of muscle/joint use, distance, emphasis on clean effective strikes. Beer with buddies afterwards doesn't hurt either.

M

[CEB]

My experience has been Shotokan has the hottest women.

[Katsu!]

Katsu
what's your style and what is it's strength and short coming?

I do Go Ju Ryu.

As mentioned by risingsun our hand techniques are quite good as are our Kata.

From a training point of view i really enjoy it and mainly due to my Sensei the training is very good. One thing how ever i find the lack of grappling and throw downs is a shortcoming.

As to what Blackwood said i must disagree. To say that
"Of course I'm going to place my style over yours or anyone elses"
is a bit too much.

Of course everyones style is their favourite since everyone puts all their effort into it. But to place it above others, well.
My question is have you proven it in combat - and i don't mean point sparring?

I don't think my style is the ultimate since all styles have their strengths and weaknesses.


M.Miletic

[dsomers]

Miletic San,

If you dont think Goju is the best karate style, why train it. It is too me, the best karate style, if not i would of found something else. Besides the kata, we have Kakie, junbi undo, hojo undo, bunkai & Oyo, & iri kumi. Most styles dont do all that, & that is why i think it is the best, it's the deepest!

[Bob van Tuyn]

I practise Kyokushin,

Do I think it’s the best style? For me at this moment it is, because is still have a lot to learn about this style and the other schools near me are not as dedicated and realistic in their approach to fighting. These schools teach shotokan and Go Ju Ryu. But It’s probably the schools that are lacking and not the styles, so for me the “representatives” of the other styles make their style look less attractive to me. That’s why I chose Kyokushin.

The think that I like most about my teacher (I don’t say style because I don’t know if this is inherent to kyokushin) is that he is flexible. He doesn’t restrict his teaching only to techniques considered part of the roots. In other words if he sees techniques that he thinks would be a good addition he will teach it. (just like Oyama incorporated the thai low kick my teacher always stay’s open to other techniques and does not think that his style has all the answers and is the best of the best)

Things that are less appealing about my style. I would like to have more grabbling and throws. But like I said no style is complete, so maybe I will take up BJJ, JUDO, Aikido over a couple of years who knows.

[risingsun]

I was orginally in Modukwan but after four years of that I started looking for something much more powerful. I have now been in Goju Ryu Karate Do for almost six years now and would never think of taking anything else. It's not that I think my style is better then any other style, but I'm just not attracted to any of the others.
To me Goju Ryu's strong points are obviously the hand techniques and kata. Goju Ryu in my opinion has no weak points but I do wish my style got more credit and reconition for being the founder of kumite then it does presently. But I believe that's a different thread entirely.
With much respect,
Margeaux Ellis

[Harry Cook]

I know that Yamaguchi has claimed to be the founder of free style fighting, as has Hironori Ohtsuka of Wado Ryu and Mastaoshi Nakayama of the JKA, but in fact experiments in various different fre style approaches were being made in the early 1930s. There are photographs of karateka sparring in armour at Keio university in the late 1920s. Actually no single person 'invented' free fighting - it developed in the university karate clubs of all the styles, probably inspired by Judo, Kendo and western boxing.
Harry Cook

[Old Dragon]

Looking through the forums it seems many not only favour their own style but also place it above others.

So lets discuss the different styles and their strengths and short comings.

I am interested in this to learn about other styles training methods and backgrounds.

M.Miletic

I train in Isshin Ryu, I have trained in other styles and experimented with other styles as well. I also hold rank in Koubdo.

Isshin Ryu is a close in fighting style, has traits of Shorin and Goju. Over the last 24-25 years I have trained with Sensei who emphasize one or the other in IR.

Isshin ryu is Okinawan, I find that as I get older that the okinawan aspect of this art has begun to interest me. There are many similarities in the different styles of the Island and they all have common roots and ancestory. Understanding mechanics, strategies, applying different applications of the kata has become a long term study. One of the most interesting things is that after training for a long time in the style I have found (as stated before on this thread) that the similarities far out weigh the differences. I have studied the same kata (seiunchin for example) from the point of view of Goju and from an IR Perspective and within each of those styles there are varying Ideas. It is an amazing and rewarding journey.

IR as part of its syllabus has Chatan yara no sai as does Ryu Kyu Kobudo, The Kobudo version emphasizes hip action to a greater degree and has a slight variation in the moves, (more a variation of the sequence of moves than actual changes, combined with a slightly different emphasis on body mechanics) Personally I love the Kobudo version.

I originally began to train in the Kobudo to further study the roots of Isshin Ryu. Shimabuku trained with Taira Shinken, My sensei trained with Shimabuku. My kobudo sensei trained with Akamine, who trained with Taira Shinken, for me it was researching as close as I could what shimabuku was teaching. I was curious as to what teachings had influenced Shimabuku. I have not at this time been able to come as close to the origins of Shimabukus teaching in Goju and Shorin ryu. Kobudo taught me a ton of information about hip action. Both from the point of view of what Isshin Ryu uses and what it doesnt. In other words I experienced what my style utilizes and was able to compare it after several years of studying what it didnt do. I beleive that "sampling" the "other side" can only be done by training for a long period of time, not just a few seminars or classes. By understanding What we dont do helped me understand what we do.

I know that studying kobudo caused a few chuckles and shaking of the head in my sensei. He was aware of what I was doing and several times laughed and yelled "who taught you that" . It definatly started some informative and great conversations about differences of opinion and points of view. One in particular was the holding of the bo. The lead hand in the bo is held slightly different in each of the styles. Each sensei explained why, each demonstrated the superiority of each technique. What I came realize was that it was Preference in the original development that was the reason for the difference. Both techniques were sound, just looking at the same situation from a different perspective which could have been a result of different experiences of the originators.

When I came to this conclusion it opened all the doors. A style is defined by its Points of view and preferences of technique. For example IR wants to fight close in, from Goju in some cases, it has taken the perspective of moving in, taking the opponents balance, and delivering the technique. Other styles that have more emphasis on kicking will use a different distance, stand back and avoid rather than redirect an attack as IR would. Neither are superior in general, when you inject a student who perhaps is more adapted through body syle to kicks then it counts.

Sorry for being so long winded, but it is not a simple question to say why I prefer my style. I prefer my style because of the sensei I have trained under, and what they have taught me, and what they have encouraged me to do (research, cross train, explore outside of my style)

I now am seeking other Okinawan practioners and people to look into the martial arts as a whole on the island. Once again, I find that the similarities in the styles of this culture hold many similarities, and only a few differences. As I get older I find that IR is adaptable to older age. The philosophy of the style and its roots in Okinawan culture recognize that as I get older my techniques will adapt to a changing physical structure and that in doing so my techniques will have to adapt to this also.

Many north american sensei have a problem with this in as much as if you cant kick someone in the head then you havent trained hard enough. (just an example) In other words, as we age, our training changes, within Isshin Ryu and the sensei I train with, this is expected. It has been my experience that in some styles or rather some dojo it is seen as a weekness, not a positive stage of training.

I have learned more from a few "old" okinawans, than I have from a multitude of younger more athletic north americans than you can shake a stick at.

So yes........ I prefer my style....... it has exposed me to a wide range of martial artists and other points of view and made my training of the last couple of decades extremly interesting and rewarding.

Mike O'Leary

[Katsu!]

I train in Isshin Ryu, I have trained in other styles and experimented with other styles as well. I also hold rank in Koubdo.

Isshin Ryu is a close in fighting style, has traits of Shorin and Goju. Over the last 24-25 years I have trained with Sensei who emphasize one or the other in IR.

Isshin ryu is Okinawan, I find that as I get older that the okinawan aspect of this art has begun to interest me. There are many similarities in the different styles of the Island and they all have common roots and ancestory. Understanding mechanics, strategies, applying different applications of the kata has become a long term study. One of the most interesting things is that after training for a long time in the style I have found (as stated before on this thread) that the similarities far out weigh the differences. I have studied the same kata (seiunchin for example) from the point of view of Goju and from an IR Perspective and within each of those styles there are varying Ideas. It is an amazing and rewarding journey.

IR as part of its syllabus has Chatan yara no sai as does Ryu Kyu Kobudo, The Kobudo version emphasizes hip action to a greater degree and has a slight variation in the moves, (more a variation of the sequence of moves than actual changes, combined with a slightly different emphasis on body mechanics) Personally I love the Kobudo version.

I originally began to train in the Kobudo to further study the roots of Isshin Ryu. Shimabuku trained with Taira Shinken, My sensei trained with Shimabuku. My kobudo sensei trained with Akamine, who trained with Taira Shinken, for me it was researching as close as I could what shimabuku was teaching. I was curious as to what teachings had influenced Shimabuku. I have not at this time been able to come as close to the origins of Shimabukus teaching in Goju and Shorin ryu. Kobudo taught me a ton of information about hip action. Both from the point of view of what Isshin Ryu uses and what it doesnt. In other words I experienced what my style utilizes and was able to compare it after several years of studying what it didnt do. I beleive that "sampling" the "other side" can only be done by training for a long period of time, not just a few seminars or classes. By understanding What we dont do helped me understand what we do.

I know that studying kobudo caused a few chuckles and shaking of the head in my sensei. He was aware of what I was doing and several times laughed and yelled "who taught you that" . It definatly started some informative and great conversations about differences of opinion and points of view. One in particular was the holding of the bo. The lead hand in the bo is held slightly different in each of the styles. Each sensei explained why, each demonstrated the superiority of each technique. What I came realize was that it was Preference in the original development that was the reason for the difference. Both techniques were sound, just looking at the same situation from a different perspective which could have been a result of different experiences of the originators.

When I came to this conclusion it opened all the doors. A style is defined by its Points of view and preferences of technique. For example IR wants to fight close in, from Goju in some cases, it has taken the perspective of moving in, taking the opponents balance, and delivering the technique. Other styles that have more emphasis on kicking will use a different distance, stand back and avoid rather than redirect an attack as IR would. Neither are superior in general, when you inject a student who perhaps is more adapted through body syle to kicks then it counts.

Sorry for being so long winded, but it is not a simple question to say why I prefer my style. I prefer my style because of the sensei I have trained under, and what they have taught me, and what they have encouraged me to do (research, cross train, explore outside of my style)

I now am seeking other Okinawan practioners and people to look into the martial arts as a whole on the island. Once again, I find that the similarities in the styles of this culture hold many similarities, and only a few differences. As I get older I find that IR is adaptable to older age. The philosophy of the style and its roots in Okinawan culture recognize that as I get older my techniques will adapt to a changing physical structure and that in doing so my techniques will have to adapt to this also.

Many north american sensei have a problem with this in as much as if you cant kick someone in the head then you havent trained hard enough. (just an example) In other words, as we age, our training changes, within Isshin Ryu and the sensei I train with, this is expected. It has been my experience that in some styles or rather some dojo it is seen as a weekness, not a positive stage of training.

I have learned more from a few "old" okinawans, than I have from a multitude of younger more athletic north americans than you can shake a stick at.

So yes........ I prefer my style....... it has exposed me to a wide range of martial artists and other points of view and made my training of the last couple of decades extremly interesting and rewarding.

Mike O'Leary

I want to thank you for your very informative reply. The way you answered my origional post is what i had in mind with this thread, not arguments or arrogance

My school is closely allied with an Isshin Ryu school here in Sydney. My Sensei is training in Kobudo and has taught me some Bo, Sai and Kama kata.
We also visit each others Dojo for Shodan gradings for sparring.

You said "By understanding What we dont do helped me understand what we do." i couldn't agree more!
I have always had questions regarding grappling and throwdowns so after i reached Shodan in Goju i decided to train also in Japanese Ju Jitsu to figure out how the two differed. Just the differences regarding flow and stance have made for some very interesting contemplation.

Again thank you with all my respect,

M.Miletic.


PS. Could others please look at above reply by Mike O'leary and try to give me an answer set in a similar way. Cheers.

[Old Dragon]

[QUOTE=Katsu!]

My school is closely allied with an Isshin Ryu school here in Sydney. My Sensei is training in Kobudo and has taught me some Bo, Sai and Kama kata.
We also visit each others Dojo for Shodan gradings for sparring.



Sydney? Are you in Australia?

If so I beleive I have communicated with some of the people there in IR. I also believe that it is Ryu Kyu Kobudo Tesshin kan that they are studying under Tamasoe Sensei..... we may have more in common that we think hahahahah ....... I beleive that many of the IR people there also study IR under AJ Advincula sensei.

Both teach That understanding and training is what it is all about.

Mike O'Leary

[Bustillo, A.]

"By understanding What we dont do helped me understand what we do." i couldn't agree more!
I have always had questions regarding grappling and throwdowns so after i reached Shodan in Goju i decided to train also in Japanese Ju Jitsu to figure out how the two differed.
M.Miletic.

Militec katsu originally wrote to M. Ellis.
Look to the Kata for ideas on dealing with other styles of fighting since as you know Go Ju is meant for close contact. Aas you know low kicks, elbows, grappling and throwdowns are all within the kata so cross training is not a neccesity. ... pick the ones that Go Ju has to offset them. all the coversation has been that Margaret (Ellis) should do this and that to prepare herself for full contact implying that Go Ju is lacking and flawed.

.

You contradict the suggestions you gave M. Ellis.
I still find it hard to believe why anyone would give such advice.

Most have agreed, to be well-rounded, after you have a foundation in one system, exploring other styles is essential.