One style over another?

[CEB]

My experience has been Shotokan has the hottest women.

[Budoka 34]

Also, the Raiders are better than the 49 ers.

We all know that the Steelers are the best!

[Timothy.G.B.]

For what its worth...

I think that to debate styles is impossible because karate styles do not exist, de facto, in the universe, independent of the person teaching it and the person learning it.

A "style" is something that people agree on to call a style but it has no existence on its own. Show me where I can find the Shotokan style?

As such, I think that there is merit in discussing one person's karate in relation to another person's karate. Discussing the merits of style is more political than functional, but when you start discussing a person's karate, then you get the real "goods".

A more productive question, in my mind, is who is your teacher, what are they teaching you and does it get you where you want to go better than anyone else you have met? If you can answer yes to that question, then you will likely feel very happy doing what you are doing.

I began training in my first teacher's shotokan, then my second teacher's Japanized version of Shorinryu, and now I am learning my current teacher's Okinawan Shorinryu. My current teacher's karate has more depth and gets me where I always wanted to go, better than my two previous teachers could (despite what they may have told me at the time).

So, the karate I am learning now is better than the stuff I did when I was a kid. Does that mean that Okinawan Shorinryu is better than Shotokan. That is a political question that will never be resolved. My current teacher's karate is definitively better than any teacher I have trained with and, in my experience, it is verifiable when talking technique and application.

My two cents...

Best,
Tim

[powerof0ne]

My experience has been Shotokan has the hottest women.

hah, I dunno...I've seen some hotties in Muay Thai, especially when I was training at Master Toddy's gym in Las Vegas getting to meet Latasha Marzolla, a playboy playmate wo has fought for Master Toddy.

[risingsun]

I think you two are thinking with the wrong head right now. The question was what style everyone takes. Not who's style has the hottest women.

[Katsu!]

As with most discussions things can go a bit off track..

I'd like to get back into the analysis of the different styles and particularilly their differences. Not in a 'my style is better than yours' way but rather what is it that draws you to the style and how have you experienced other styles?

[risingsun]

There are so many reasons why I love my style that if I listed them all, my computer would crash. I already stated that I think Goju Ryu's strong points are our hand techniques and kata. Another reason would have to be the practicality and the smoothness of it. Goju Ryu is swift and beautiful without all the flashiness and hype that other styles have resorted to. I have expirenced Tiquawndo, Kapakaweta, Boxing, Kick boxing, and Judo to name a few and yes they all have their strong points and weaknesses but to me, none of them hold the power that Goju Ryu does.
With much respect,
-Margeaux Ellis

[hectokan]

As with most discussions things can go a bit off track..

I'd like to get back into the analysis of the different styles and particularilly their differences. Not in a 'my style is better than yours' way but rather what is it that draws you to the style and how have you experienced other styles?

katsu,

It's kind of hard to explain how we all have experienced others styles and why we might not train in them without turning this into a world war 3 type thread.What & why someone is drawn to a particular style usually raises red flags for everyone else,therfore it's never a win,win,situation for anybody arguing these points.



I train in different types combat sports for sheer hapinness first and foremost but effective street self defense is a byproduct of that training atleast in my mind and theory it is.A lot of people cannot draw the line or see any connection whatsoever between sport and the byproducts of it's training for practical street self defense but I do and that's what makes this world go around.Different theories and different ideas.

[powerof0ne]

There are so many reasons why I love my style that if I listed them all, my computer would crash. I already stated that I think Goju Ryu's strong points are our hand techniques and kata. Another reason would have to be the practicality and the smoothness of it. Goju Ryu is swift and beautiful without all the flashiness and hype that other styles have resorted to. I have expirenced Tiquawndo, Kapakaweta, Boxing, Kick boxing, and Judo to name a few and yes they all have their strong points and weaknesses but to me, none of them hold the power that Goju Ryu does.
With much respect,
-Margeaux Ellis

I still don't understand how someone that trained 4 years in Tae Kwon Do can't even spell it right?
I'm going to google Kapakaweta since I haven't heard of it before..but is this supposed to be capoeira? I'm by no means an English professor but I would think that someone that has trained for years in a particular art could at least spell it right. It's also interesting to me that you put down crosstraining before and only mentioned your TKD..or I should say, TQD experience but now mention your kapakaweta, boxing, kickboxing, and judo experience.
I also admit that perhaps Kapakaweta is a real art that I haven't heard of before...I see new arts all the time on the baffling budo section on here that I have never heard of.
Now, I think that Goju Ryu is an effective art and can produce some very tough fighters but I also think that if you took 20 non-pro boxers, kickboxers, or judoka against 20 goju ryu practitiones(that never fought in a world championship or even nationals)..and that they all each studied for 5 years, were around the same age, sex(male vs. male, female vs. female) that the goju ryu practitioners would lose. I'm saying this for your education Margeaux, I know it will upset you but that's not my point in doing this. I would say the same about the style of karate-do that I study, shito ryu.
I work with a gentleman that trained in boxing for about 7 years in my area, in a gym that has produced many olympic boxers. Now this person isn't a world champion, never fought pro but he's no one that I would take lightly, he has over 40 amature boxing fights and never pursued boxing as a career option, just to stay in shape and have fun.
Boxing and kickboxing train in such a way that their training is solely for competition. You don't have many boxing and kickboxing practitioners that are in it just for the art of it...the workouts generally are much harder in most boxing gyms than the average karate-do dojo. I'm not saying that a goju ryu practitioner couldn't beat a boxer or a kickboxer, I'm 100% positive their are some that could but out of all the karateka yudansha that I personally know against all the pro kickboxers/thaiboxers, amature kickboxers/thaiboxers...Only one imo would stand a chance in a fight, maybe two.
The thing is, the potential for a great fighter is their in any karate style but most of us don't in reality train to be a "god hand". Many years ago my sensei somehow got me to think that boxing was greatly inferior to karate-do in terms of fighting. Wow, was I brainwashed.
I hope you continue your Goju ryu training and I hope you do compete in a knockdown tournament...I just don't want you to go into the competition unprepared and get hurt. This is a martial art you can train in your whole life, how many over 50 year olds do you see that are still training in Muay Thai? Hardly any.

edited to add this: I did a google and ask.com search on Kapakaweta and could find no results. so, is this capoeira? The Afro-Brazillian martial art? Or something else?

[Brad Burklund]

Hectokan,

I train in different types combat sports for sheer hapinness first and foremost but effective street self defense is a byproduct of that training atleast in my mind and theory it is.A lot of people cannot draw the line or see any connection whatsoever between sport and the byproducts of it's training for practical street self defense but I do and that's what makes this world go around.Different theories and different ideas.

One of the best answers I have heard and something that also manifests itself in the reasons why I practice. I think, honestly, I got into martial arts to learn how to fight. That was over 20 years ago...learned that there were always bigger dogs somewhere. And despite MA training, it's easy for someone else to hurt another person if they wish to; so fighting and dominance might have been the original reason, but sure weren't persevering ones.

Also figured that, for whatever reason, usually my smile.. , I got out of most situations and haven't had a phyisical confrontation in decades.

So why continue on...I have some cursory experience in judo, aikido and BJJ, but still consider myself a karateka despite not using the art in any attempt to defend myself.

So why? Well, for some of us, the sheer pleasure of practice and doing something somewhat martial, while using our minds and bodies, speak to us for whatever reason. The biggest factor is that I enjoy it and miss it if I can't do it and still carry on in the limited way I can.

Is anything better than something else? I guess, but it's for the doer to decide, not for someone to choose for him. As for me what Hectokan stated, states it well!

-Brad Burklund

[powerof0ne]

I like the styles I train in, do I think they're better than yours? No...I just think I do a different style.

Being a "bad mamma jamma" fighter isn't the be all, end all of martial arts. I used to think it was when I was younger, and I am still quite young but if you like the martial art you're studying, get a good work out, make life long friends, learn practical self defense than who can say their style is better than yours?

No one can, this is all opinion.

[Bustillo, A.]

It didn't happen overnight, but nowadays I don't consider I practice nor teach "a style" per se. Traditional systems gave me good solid foundation yet, even as a teenager, I don't remember having that aversion to learning from other styles and borrowing tactics and training methods from fighting arts like boxing and kickboxing.

The way dojo practice is conducted, no one style is strong in all aspects of fighting. A style may claim to have everything yet the fact is that other arts do certain things much better. For example BJJ's groundwork, Muay Thai's elbows, knees and low round kicking and so on. Taiking this into account it's hard to ignore there are system more modern and more up to date in effectively practising the different concepts.

There is a lot of talk about "sticking to only one system" etc etc but after a certain point cross-training is essential.

[Budoka 34]

There is a lot of talk about "sticking to only one system" etc etc but after a certain point cross-training is essential.

Antonio,

I think that it would depend on why a person is training.

For purely self-defense reasoning, sure, study everything you can absorb.
If however your goal is to master a "style" then I guess you'd stay focused on that style.

How does that old saying go?
"There are as many reasons to study as there are people studying."

[Bustillo, A.]

Antonio,

I think that it would depend on why a person is training.

For purely self-defense reasoning, sure, study everything you can absorb.
If however your goal is to master a "style" then I guess you'd stay focused on that style.

I still disagree. You can focus on a style but even then one should venture out. Practising with other instructors and in different systems will give you a broader perspective of the martial arts and that will help you understand your style all the more.

View it this way. Your instructor's instructor stuck to one style to master it. Great. No problem so far. Your instructor only stuck to what his instructor tuaght him and teaches exactly the way he taught him. Hm. Then you , then the next generation, same thing...

It's akin to the "pure race" nonsense. All that inbreeding ain't good in the long run.

[dsomers]

Antonio, I've never heard an analogy like that before. Thats was too funny!
Gichin Funakoshi, the founder of modern karate Do trained under both Itosu, & Azato Sensei. Shoshin Nagamine trained w/ Arakaki, Kyan, & Motobu. Even the founder of my style (Goju Ryu), Miyagi Chojun trained under Arakaki Sensei before training w/ Kanryo Higashionna Sensei, then later in life Miyagi Sensei ventured to Okinawa to try to find Higashionna Sensei's teacher that went by the name of Ryu Ru Ko. If the masters of old could do it, why cant we?

David