Samurai Sword Ban in UK

[poryu]

Hi

if this did happen I would assume that they would have a loop hole designed for serious collectors and pratitioners.

Some f the UK's serious big time collectors are seriously wealthy men (just attenda Token meeting and see what I mean).

If the ban went a head a licensing law may happen as in Denmark where you need some sort of permission to own a sword.Not sure of the exact law itself.

The only good side of this law is it would stop the sale of the nasty wall hangers that I see selling for £35 at car boot sales for a set of 3 with a stand.

[tiocfaidh]

Hi Paul,

"if this did happen I would assume that they would have a loop hole designed for serious collectors and pratitioners."

I hope you're right, however I don't think we can just assume this. Without a bit of lobbying or at least even monitoring the consultation process (to the extent that there is one) we need to be careful we don't just wake up one day with a total ban.

"If the ban went ahead a licensing law may happen as in Denmark where you need some sort of permission to own a sword. Not sure of the exact law itself.

The only good side of this law is it would stop the sale of the nasty wall hangers that I see selling for £35 at car boot sales for a set of 3 with a stand."

Agree 100%. To be honest, if it gets rid of that sort of situation where idiots can just go to their local army surplus shop and pick one of these things up then that's a good thing, though again, we do need to monitor the situation to ensure that responsible practitioners don't end up either: 1. minus their swords; or 2. criminals.

Yours in budo,
Gerard

[Phantom of BF]

Did the UK gun ban have a loophole for 'serious collectors?' Your government wants to be your mommy. It doesn't care what you do or what you like.

[ElfTengu]

To be honest, I'd rather have some scum attack me with a sword than shoot me from 20 feet away, I mean isn't this what we're training for? (apart from the foolish types who are seeking some kind of spiritual enlightenment)

And with swords you don't get things like stray bullets that hit babies in prams. And you have to have the bottle to get up close and personal which many criminals lack. Personally I applaud the criminals' move towards swords away from guns for precisely these reasons. The problem is that the Police wont follow suit (can you imagine it? The Armed Response Unit piling out of a Transit van and drawing police issue wakizashi and jutte or charging in with sodegarami/sodegaki!)

It wasn't long ago that we we all saying on forums like this that our arts were outdated because nobody is going to attack us with a katana in the 20th/21st century.

It seems that we were wrong.

We should be shouting hurrah, because it shouldn't be too difficult to find one
of these sword wielding villains and find out whether we really cut the mustard alongside our martial ancestors (granted that the Tottenham Boys probably didn't have the same kenjutsu training or quality cutlery as the samurai of old, not that this would go through your mind when you are being slashed at in a dodgy pub by a crack addict with a £9 lump of katana-esque piece of 'stainless' steel.)

I certainly won't be going to any of the cities mentioned in the article without seriously considering carrying at least a jutte! (I had better say I am only joking at this point!).

The sad fact however is that the police have already shown in an incident I believe happened in Leeds where they shot dead a criminal who was waving 'samurai' sword around that their lack of imagination and training will lead the criminal fraternity back towards guns when they realise that the police will still use guns against swords and it just aint fair play!

I saw a wonderful 'reality TV' clip form the States where some perp was waggling a sword around in a shopping mall. Unlike the Leeds police who through a mixture of fear and bewilderment opted to shoot the guy dead, the Amerian cops called in the Fire Department who hosed the chap until he fell over and then pinned him with a ladder, using another ladder to disarm him without causing undue injury. Lets get the UK Armed Response Units trained in some good old fashioned jutte and sodegarami/sodegaki techniques and perhaps using the PR24 baton in the same manner as it's ancestor the tonfa was designed for. Not so much mutodori though, because it can go wrong too easily.

As for lobbying and licencing, if you look at they way they banned other weapons, they are likely to use a visual description of a 'samurai sword' that will cover everything from a vintage Masamune to a 99p ebay special.

[Phantom of BF]

I'd rather be armed with either than live in a country that tries and fails to protect me from myself by disarming me.

[ElfTengu]

I'd rather be armed with either than live in a country that tries and fails to protect me from myself by disarming me.

If you need protection from yourself and are likely to attack yourself with a sword or gun then you should definitely not be armed with anything and should live in a country that tries and does not fail to disarm you!

I think I may have misunderstood your last post.

I'm going to go and talk to Elftengu now.

Oh no, I am Elftengu!

Someone protect me from Elftengu!

No, not you Elftengu

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!!

[ElfTengu]

Quote ["Laws, good men don't need them, and bad men don't obey them, so what use are they?"]

Best quote I've seen in a long while, thanks Jim

[yoj]

Adam, it kind of stuck in my mind too when i read it, share the wealth ;-)

[Phantom of BF]

I think I may have misunderstood your last post.

Obviously.

[ScottUK]

Did the UK gun ban have a loophole for 'serious collectors?' Your government wants to be your mommy. It doesn't care what you do or what you like.

I recommend you meet more Brits. We like to talk about the weather, queue for everything etc etc, but we don't roll over and take it from behind like some nations do.

Thank you wall hangers. If this really happens, then it'll be the end for iaido.

Think so?

Don't think for a minute that even a flat-out ban would be the death knell for JSA in the UK. Most of us will carry on regardless.

[Phantom of BF]

I recommend you meet more Brits. We like to talk about the weather, queue for everything etc etc, but we don't roll over and take it from behind like some nations do.

They don't? Lots of legal gun owners among the Brits I'm supposed to meet, are there?

You have a gun ban. You have a knife ban. You will have a sword ban. Eventually you will have a martial arts ban. Tell me then how much your people resist oppression.

[ScottUK]

There's still lots of legal gun owners, yes. Handguns are out, but rifle, shotgun and b/p are still here...

Oppression? The gun ban was a foolish move by the government, but shooting continues off UK soil. We didn't just put up our hands and quit.

[David T Anderson]

Come to think of it, I recall reading that the primary reason that most iaito are made from an alloy of aluminum rather than steel is not a safety concern, but due to the strict laws governing swords in Japan. As long as the new law distinguishes between steel and aluminum swords, iaido practitioners should be fine. Someone should write their representative on the double to make sure that they know to word the legislation appropriately.

Sorry, but since alloy-bladed iaito would be just as useful for killing and injuring [and menacing] as a steel-blade, I doubt that weapon-prohibitionists would make any distinctions for them.

If legislators were actually capable of rational thought, they would know that weapon bans of most any sort aren't going to work unless they first take care to lock up criminals and lunatics and _keep_ them locked up. After doing so, weapon regulations are mostly [maybe entirely] superfluous. This idea, thank all the gods of Budo, seems to be getting some traction here in Canada, where the Prime Minister's proposed handgun ban [promised as an election goodie] has fallen pretty much fallen flat. The additonal fact that we just had another police shooting and the cry for more gun control _hasn't_ immediately gone up is another hopeful sign of growing rationality on the subject.

[the cop, who just happened to be a beautiful 25yo woman, was gunned down by a known loonie with a high-powered rifle. The loonie was known as a troublemaker who stalked another female officer, and was somehow given permission to possess a firearm _despite_ a judicially-ordered ban on his owning any kind of weapon. Details are fuzzy, but will most likely be highly embarrassing to the local authorities. FYI].

[Liam Cognet]

It would be hard to ban 'samurai swords' and not other swords. I don't think the average cop would know the difference between wallhanger/iaito/shinken or japanese/western/chinese sword etc.

Ban japanese swords and crims move on to other swords, then to machettes, big kitchen knives, gardening or carpentry tools, etc.

The government can't very well ban all sharp and pointy objects, how are people going to cut stuff like food and ribbons at opening ceromonies?

[ScottUK]

Use their ki?