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Thread: Moved from Sword Arts. This is Karate or Kenbu linked

  1. #1
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    Default Any ideas?

    Guys and Girls,

    Any idea what ryu this naginata waza is from? I thought it was a strange position to be in so out of curiousity I emailed the website but I haven't received any reply as of yet.

    http://www.shindoryu.org/gallery32.htm

    All the best,
    Scott Halls
    Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu Kenjutsu - Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iai
    兵法二天一流剣術 - 無双直伝英信流居合

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    What the bloody hell is that?

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    Not sure - I was looking for a new wallpaper and came across this site. Was very curious as to the school of naginata 'cos it looks quite short - I'm glad I'm not the only person who can't find naginata to fit...
    Scott Halls
    Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu Kenjutsu - Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iai
    兵法二天一流剣術 - 無双直伝英信流居合

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    Angry Friendly force?

    Wow,

    That is the second severely-mangled hasso (complete w/horrible basu-boru tenouchi) posted on E-budo in a week. Ack!
    Jigme Chobang Daniels
    aoikoyamakan at gmail dot com

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    Those are... interesting... uniforms that they are wearing. I wasn't aware that any legitimate schools used that type of thing. Does anyone know who these guys are?
    David Sims

    "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." - Terry Pratchet

    My opinion is, in all likelihood, worth exactly what you are paying for it.

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    I would say just a Karate group..Interested in other things..Or perhaps have members that train in other things..Who knows?
    The Naginata postures and some of the other pictures would have led me to conclude some thing theatrical..But then this turned up..
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

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    Default Backwards sword

    It looks like the woman doing the tachi side is holding the sword with the blade facing back towards her.

    His kamae in the first picture is similar to ihen no kamae of the kukishin ryu bojutsu, but that is all I can say about that. The bojutsu on their homepage looks "dead." Though some of it looks similar to things I have seen, it looks static and seems to lack something in its presentation.

    The man is Shiro Shintaku headmaster of the Ten Shin Ichi Ryu, which appears to be a bit of a mish mash of different things that have very little in common with each other from the looks of their website.

    To my eye, their iai looks funny and their karate pictures look strange as well, but it is hard to tell much from pictures.
    Glenn R. Manry

    ---Iaijutsu, don't forget the doorman.

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    Never seen anything like it at any of the koryu embutaikai I have attended hosted by either the Kobudo Shinkokai or Kyokai, nor with the smaller non-affilliated koryu embu. (Mind you I was only living in Japan for 7 1/2 years - A shorter time than I had intended.)

    At embu, the order of the day has almost always been, montsuki & hakama, keikogi, or in regards to Yoshin-ryu Naginatajutsu, furisode kimono.

    Very strange. Especially the kamae used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fifthchamber
    I would say just a Karate group..Interested in other things..Or perhaps have members that train in other things..Who knows?
    The Naginata postures and some of the other pictures would have led me to conclude some thing theatrical..But then this turned up..
    Kenbu methinks.

    Shiro Shintaku's biography.

    14 years under Oyata Taika sensei? We have a member on the forum who is a member of Oyata sensei's school who can verify this.

    To add, the iai looks very odd.

    One of their links leads to something called the "Kodo Butokukai", something I have never heard of, but they seem to have two Japanese teachers in their number for yearly seminars.

    Kodo Butokukai website

    Kodo Butokukai Kodosai masters list

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    I'm thinking it may be a sort of kenbu group. The man with the bowl and spear is performing a dance based on a famous story, "Kuroda Bushi."

    The story is commonly acted both in more refined kenbu and in traditional dances or folk-singing. The hero was Mori Tahei who was challenged by his lord, a leader of the Kuroda clan, to drink sake. Tahei won a sort of contest and was given a famous spear. I believe this spear is on display in Fukuoka: Meisoo Nippongo. I've seen a gallery catalog, though I didn't make it to the museum when I was there. The spear is quite beautiful. Read here for a bit more on the story and some performances of the song, though I believe we use a different song: Kuroda Bushi

    Our style of Kenbu has this dance, and I've seen seniors perform/practice it, though it is beyond my level.

    The first picture w/ naginata is likely a kenbu dance: it's not unusual to wear these sorts of costumes when one is portraying a famous figure. Perhaps it is Benki? One of our dances about Kato Kiyomasa has a brief step similar to that, but w/ a spear. Don't fret people, it is less about "combat effectiveness" and more about looking like Hachiman...
    Last edited by nicojo; 16th December 2005 at 19:13.
    J. Nicolaysen
    -------
    "I value the opinion much more of a grand master then I do some English professor, anyways." Well really, who wouldn't?

    We're all of us just bozos on the budo bus and there's no point in looking to us for answers regarding all the deep and important issues.--M. Skoss.

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    Anyhow, that guy at least is in Kenbu for sure, though it's impossible to know which ryu. From their first page:
    We are a traditional Karate organisation with no interest in Sport Karate, however, we encourage our members to train in other traditional Okinawan/Japanese arts as we believe that if you train in other arts and Ryu (styles) - you learn more about how and why your own art/style works. Our function is to promote and propagate the true essence of the art and preserve the Okinawan/Japanese heritage of Karate and Kobudo.
    It's unclear, but perhaps this means chado, kenbu, etc. as well as other styles of budo.

    Now lest anybody get any ideas, I'm neither defending nor supporting their use of kenbu; I don't really care, though I'd like to know what their lineage is and where they practice. I think their style of Karate speaks for itself--I sure can't say anything about it.
    ---
    Heck, you see these guys all the time in shops over there: buy it here?
    Last edited by nicojo; 16th December 2005 at 19:25.
    J. Nicolaysen
    -------
    "I value the opinion much more of a grand master then I do some English professor, anyways." Well really, who wouldn't?

    We're all of us just bozos on the budo bus and there's no point in looking to us for answers regarding all the deep and important issues.--M. Skoss.

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    Default A master of kenbu/senbu does not a master of kenjutsu/iai/tessenjutsu make.

    Wait a minute...Sorry, but senbu isn't a combative art, it is a performative art:
    http://www.tenshinichiryu.com/senbu.htm . Someone seems to confuse it with tessenjutsu...Many bells ringing for me. We never have that sort of "confusion."

    Well I can say a bit more, but I'll stop there.
    Last edited by nicojo; 16th December 2005 at 19:47.
    J. Nicolaysen
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    "I value the opinion much more of a grand master then I do some English professor, anyways." Well really, who wouldn't?

    We're all of us just bozos on the budo bus and there's no point in looking to us for answers regarding all the deep and important issues.--M. Skoss.

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    Hmm, did you notice that the photo sections just seem to be taken on a tourist trip, with no actual serious training photos taken in Japan? That rings some bells with me.

    Also, look at the training photos section cache titled : 2005 TSIR Seminar.

    George Palruski is there! Welcome back Mr. "Shin Tenshin Shin'yo-ryu!!!"

    I think we should move this to baffling budo ASAP.

  14. #14
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    Default Baffling? Maybe, maybe not.

    Well I don't know. The trip could have just been a sort of culture thing since the "doshu" is based in Maryland. It's not like there is a home dojo for their style in Japan since it is definitly made up by him.

    I guess I just thought it was fairly honest with what it's about until the senbu thing. By what I know of senbu, that just is not right and it shouldn't be confused with tessenjutsu. And it would be better, if I were the web-master, if the kenbu pics were so marked since it is somewhat misleading, or at least some people may think they will learn actual naginata/yari techniques! I'd be interested to know what ryu the kenbu is from; some of you may not know that kenbu is taught through a ryu system, like koryu, chado, etc.

    Now it makes me wonder where the iai is from. But since I'm unlikely to find myself in Maryland in need of a teacher, I'll drop it.

    Looks like there is supposed to be a sort of training session in Phoenix! I could check it out, but there is no contact info. I don't really have much expertise in this sort of thing anyway; I'll leave it to you guys, heh.
    J. Nicolaysen
    -------
    "I value the opinion much more of a grand master then I do some English professor, anyways." Well really, who wouldn't?

    We're all of us just bozos on the budo bus and there's no point in looking to us for answers regarding all the deep and important issues.--M. Skoss.

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    But isn't Shindo Ryu some form of Aikijujutsu? http://www.shindoryu.com

    Charles Mahan

    Iaido - Breaking down bad habits,
    and building new ones.

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