The difference between Tomari, Naha and Shuri systems?

[cxt]

edg 176

Please direct any comments to or about me to the thread Ron has set up in the Gendai section.

(Or perhaps the Members Lounge where folks can be more free with their statements.)

Please!!!!!

This thread has been hijacked enough.

Thank you for your concern, but again, if you wish to discuss either the tone or implication of your post in context with Mikes, please do so on another thread.


Chris Thomas

[Asura]

Mike

So you CAN'T show me yourself????

Guess its just like I said, the abilies that you claim are pretty much ONLY in the hands of very senior people.
Guess its just not all that useful for "normal" folks, huh???

Weird and you kept insisting that it was "prevelent."

If you had just admitted that from the get-go none of this would have been needed.

Oh, BTW, I did not say he was the ONLY guy I respect--I said I "respected" him--go back and look it up if you doubt me.

Tell you what---why don't we take this up to Rons thread??
Have you not hijacked this thread enough?????

Why do you need to know where I live?

Is that another subtle "threat?"

Like your coming to get me or something??????

Are you pulling a "Ashida Kim" on me?????


Chris Thomas

You're starting to sound a lot like A.K. yourself

[cxt]

Asura/Robert

I am????

Weird. "I'm" not the one that either can't or won't provide requested proofs of my declaritive statements of "fact."

That would you and Mike.

Nor am I the one makeing subtle "threats."

Please, please, pretty please, address all comments to me on the thread that Ron Tisdale set up to handle it.

Chirs Thomas

[Todd Lambert]

Unless I'm blind, I did not see a section maked Ti, can you provide me the link. Maybe he doesnt have it listed.

David

This Shinjinbukan site seems to be related to Tim's group, and has a bit more info.

Cheers,

[Todd Lambert]

In Shoshin Nagamine's "Tales of Okinawa's Great Masters", the translator's (Patrick/Yuriko McCarthy) notes (#5, p.156) have a very interesting, very relevant point to the discussion.

In preparation for Kano Jigoro's (the founder of judo) monumental visit to Okinawa in January of 1927, a demonstration of karate was scheduled. Among others, the presentation featured Mabuni Kenwa, Miyagi Chojun, and Kyan Chotoku. Prefectural administrators, seeking to present the to-te (Chinese martial arts) in a way which might more closely reflect its local cultivation rather than revealing its actual foreign origins, established the new terms Shuri-te, Naha-te, and Tomari-te: "te" disciplines native to Shuri, Naha, and Tomari.

[cxt]

I don't know, looks like a distinction without much of a difference to me.

When you get right down too it--China was seen as the "place" to go to gain skill in martial arts.
And pretty much everyone that either was or became "someone" in Okinawan martial arts circles is linked to China in some regard.

They either went there personally or trained under someone who did.

So I think its kinda questionable to use words like "foreign" or "native" in this context.
Hard to say exactly which is what--or how much or to what degree.

You could also read the passage as more a case of "marketing"---the passage talks about ways to "reflect" given traits--ie focus/emp certain aspects and possibly deflect focus on others.

I tend to view the "old-timers" as a pretty savy bunch all the way around.

Certainly they were smart and canny enough to know how best to appeal to certain people/groups/viewers etc.

[Todd Lambert]

I don't know, looks like a distinction without much of a difference to me...

You could also read the passage as more a case of "marketing"---the passage talks about ways to "reflect" given traits--ie focus/emp certain aspects and possibly deflect focus on others.

I think we agree. It appears it was not actual practitioners who came up with the distinction (assuming the quote is historically accurate), but bureaucrats eager to impress their Japanese "mainland" celebrity visitors...

[Andrew S]

I think we agree. It appears it was not actual practitioners who came up with the distinction (assuming the quote is historically accurate), but bureaucrats eager to impress their Japanese "mainland" celebrity visitors...

Especially as they the mainlanders all had densho, menkyo kaiden and impressive lineages whereas the locals only had the names of their teachers and whatever kata they learned. They would have had to make it look something like what the mainlanders would consider a "real" martial art.