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Thread: What is Ki?

  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimiwane
    It's part of the energy. Ki is life energy? Life is alive? How does a tree "use" ki? It uses it to be a tree. Does the tree tell the ki how to grow (tree is also ki in Japanese)? Or does the ki tell the ki how to grow???

    The thing is, by living close to nature and working with ki in life, you start to allow the deeper truth of humanity to be expressed in your life. This is a thing called "sei" or "tadashi". It means innate correctness. We can obliterate this with bad habits or we can "cultivate" it. My teacher's school was YO (cultivate) SEI (correctness) KAN (house). Sei is not something you put onto or into people from outside. It is their correct nature. If the Japanese say "tadashikunai", it means what you did was not just wrong but somehow fundamentally flawed. Someone who is quiet, conservative of energy, observant and thoughtful will better be able to recognize sei in himself and develop it than one who is loud, chattery and full of schemes and ideas put onto him from the outside. So we use ki to develop into the people we are "meant" to be by the nature that we have. That is, correct people. And that means mind, body, being. As they should be.
    Since the topic of Ki has been covered to the point where even the current views of the world's top martial artists have been discussed, I don't see any point in getting into a prolonged debate with someone whose water-can is completely full. Briefly, there is no "ki" in the classical sense. That's why no Asian technological papers discuss it at all. It *used* to be an explanation involving a mysterious universal all-pervasive force that explained the missing parts of early technology. That explanation has now fizzled. There are *parts* of the ki paradigm that described phenemena which have no agreed-upon western nomenclature yet. A lot of us still use the term "ki", etc., to intially point to those items conversationally, but that's not an indication of a belief in a mysterious universal force. You can't "know how these things work" and still try to discuss unaccounted for "energies".
    I'm afraid those are not my topics. Has science any clearly defined view of that? Do all sciences agree on that view?
    No western science has found any substance that agrees with the idea of a hidden universal force which will explain the phenomena associated with "qi". Period.
    But before you answer, I'd like to point out that you have persisted throughout this thread in demanding scientific reasoning and you have many times discounted my scientific knowledge, but you've never clearly stated your own qualification to define these questions, yourself. I'm having that with mike on the kuzushi thread, where he's told me what a great martial artist he is and what a super engineer, but he's never been specific about where he's been, what he's done or what his credentials are.
    David, your bio says you're a "writer". Not a scientist. If you claimed to be a "scientist" and you were able to just ONCE get this conversation onto a substantive level, then MAYBE we'd discuss "credentials". You're simply dodging and laying out the flummery. Trevor has made you look like a complete dunce, although he's been quite polite about it, but you're too dense to even realize how you look. Even if you have *some* credentials in the physical sciences, you don't have enough to use them for the improper appeal to authority.

    At best you can present witnesses to what you can do. IF you can do those things, then they are explainable on a physical level. So far, I don't know of anyone that has spoken for you (although you have leaned your weigth of blarney against your teacher numerous times, he hasn't volunteered anything about you). Even taking your assertion that you "know all these things", you avoid explaining physically how they work. I.e., you look rather pathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Orange
    (in re Mike Sigman) he's told me what a great martial artist he is and what a super engineer,
    You need to provide a quote for this or retract it, David. This personal BS needs to stop now. And it's the last time I want to have to say it.
    Well, the mind IS ki. Ki is alive.
    Absolute hogwash. You and a lot of people at your level are used to doing the "here's my opinion" like you're Boyscouts sitting around a campfire telling ghost stories, David. There's not even an Asian belief remotely like that to support such a wild statement.
    If you contact him with the "seven harmonies" (the six harmonies applied in harmony with the opponent's six harmonies), a beautiful reaction will occur and a strange displacement of physical bodies can be observed. My research and experimentation is on that macro level of human mind/body to human mind/body and my only instrument is the bokken. My only references are I Ching, Tao Te Ching and my sensei's books, plus a few others. That's how I study and work with the laws of nature.
    Even though I explained exactly what the 3 internal and 3 external harmonies are, you somehow think that you're in that Boyscout-campfire world where it's OK to spin whatever yarn you want and you won't get caught. David, it's over. Those days are gone. There IS no "seven harmonies" involving the "six harmonies". You have egg on your face.

    FWIW

    Mike Sigman

  2. #257
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    Default Stopped, already.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesigman@eart
    You need to provide a quote for this or retract it, David. This personal BS needs to stop now. And it's the last time I want to have to say it.
    Yes, Mike. It's clear that you would never stoop to saying anything personal. Well, I've finally seen what so many people have said on the open forum. You have nothing to contribute. You're just on here to demonstrate your fancy fart-sound machine. Very impressive. I've heard enough. Have fun beating your master and do let me know if you ever have anything meaningful to say.
    David Orange, Jr.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    "That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
    Lao Tzu

  3. #258
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    Mike

    As you say on page 17

    "Ki debates can be reconciled thu the scientific method and reproducable results to rigorous testing methods."

    So whould you care to present some actual evidence of such testing???

    Would love to read the "rigorous" studies/testing you refer to.

    Like I said before, if you can prove actual paranormal abilities under lab conditions--I know where you can pick up 1 MILLION dollars right quick.

    I find it hard to belive that you could not use or have no interest in a million bucks.

    Surely there are some sick kids out there that you could use the money to help???

    Or are you so cold hearted that you have the abilty to help these poor kids--yet you refuse to do so?

    How does that make you look as a person?

    Martial arts clubs do things for charity all the time.

    How can you sit there and NOT collect a MILLION dollars to help kids???



    Chris Thomas
    Last edited by cxt; 10th February 2006 at 17:29.

  4. #259
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    Okay.

    I think this thread has come to the end of its useful life. It is closed.
    Peter Goldsbury,
    Forum Administrator,
    Hiroshima, Japan

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