When students look but do not "see"

[Dave Humm]

Hey all..

Last night one of my students hurt themselves during practice.

Whilst we (I) realise that what we do is a martial art and accidents -thus injuries - do happen from time to time I am constantly perplexed at how students can watch a technique several times, listen to instructions and explanations then, get up and do something completely different, so much so in this case that a student ended up with a injured shoulder.

How do you guys present your techniques when teaching or, how does your Sensei present them to you ? Do you often find yourself watching the technique then find yourself thinking "What was it I was supposed to do?" If that is the case, what aspects of presentation by the instructor do you feel would reduce the confusion factor ?

Regards

[kimiwane]

I am constantly perplexed at how students can watch a technique several times, listen to instructions and explanations then, get up and do something completely different, so much so in this case that a student ended up with a injured shoulder.

How do you guys present your techniques when teaching or, how does your Sensei present them to you ? Do you often find yourself watching the technique then find yourself thinking "What was it I was supposed to do?" If that is the case, what aspects of presentation by the instructor do you feel would reduce the confusion factor ?

Dave,

This is the essence of what we were discussing in the thread on "Teaching".

Your question is the point I've been working on for the past ten years or more, but my comments are often overlooked because they are not always about teaching "the technique" but on teaching those things that will enable the student to do any technique. It's stuff that people tend to skip over when they hear about it and completely miss it when they encounter it in the real world.

I think your question also points up why people may find techniques difficult to apply in a "real" situation after much successful practice in the dojo.

The thing is, the problem is in both the teacher's teaching method and the student's "learning" method. You show them a very simple method, then ask them to repeat it after two or three demos and they say, "Now, what did you do?"

We not only have to examine what and how we just showed the student, but we also have to wonder "What was he 'thinking' about when I was just showing him that?" two seconds ago?

Zen training should help the student to clear out the buzz in their heads that prevent their actually "seeing" what they're standing there looking at. Silencing the "internal dialogue" goes a long way toward that.

But I decided long ago that aikido and most other traditional types of martial arts are deliberately taught "backward" to keep students from seeing clearly what's going on. By "taught backward", I mean that they teach "techniques", which are like the leaves on a tree. They go all around the tree and look at everything out on the tips of all the branches. In this way, each of the leaves is a seriously separate thing from all the others and there is no apparent connection between them.

We could go further with this analogy and say that each branch of the tree is like a separate art or family of arts--Korean styles, Chinese styles, Japanese styles, etc. And within each family, there would be the grappling techniques, the striking techniques, throwing techniques, etc.

Learning about all these different "leaves" on the ends of all the branches can definitely obscure the connections between all the arts and all the techniques and prevent people's deeper understanding for literally decades, or their entire lives.

Not to say that they won't get very good with these techniques, but without understanding the underlying connections, they will remain limited both in their ability to teach material other than "techniques" or "moves" and will be unable to provide the student with the really clear "teaching" that they need.

But what if we teach "backward" from "traditional" ways?

Then we would begin with the roots and trunk of the tree and show how the trunk branches off into various directions and how these natural separations naturally lead to the various techniques out at the end of the separations into branches and stems.

I think this way not only speeds a student's ability to understand the techniques and to follow them, but it allows them to see that the same ideas apply in aikido, tai chi, baguazhang, karate, judo, kenjutsu, jujutsu and every other martial art or physical activity.

This understanding then strengthens their lives by freeing them from the idea that we need "the art" to make ourselves something we are not.

And of course, that is impossible. To me, the best aspect of the martial arts is that they allow you to learn more about who you are.

And that is one of the big paradoxes of training. You have to absorb someone else's way entirely in order to "be yourself"?

Well, the answer is "Yes and No".

"The art" does not "make the man". But learning about yourself, you can see that the arts were made "for" people. So I decided to emphasize that "for people" attitude in my teaching. The most important thing I can do for a student is to help them lay down the unnecessary baggage they're carrying around. This means all the thinking that interferes with their "seeing" what we show them.

But it also means freeing them from the idea that the technique is something more meaningful and important than mere human living.

Well, all this is very difficult to convey in words. "Feeling" is the important thing and without some training in The Feldenkrais Method of neuromuscular education, the words may carry little meaning at all. But if you ever "feel" it, you will be sure of what the words meant.

Best wishes.

[Yoseikan NL]

Very good exlplenation David.
In my books I describe a smimilair way to explain this way of approach.
It is all about getting a good and clear understanding of the underlying principles which make techniques work. If you understand that, you understand how things work even if it is a diffrent style.
Technique is made by a human and he acts within his behavior. Training the martial arts techniques gives you the possibility to get more insight and understanding in yourself to find a better balance.

Edgar Kruyning
Yoseikan Netherlands

[Dave Humm]

Thank you for your comments, I appreciate them..

Happy Holiday

Regards

[MarkF]

In a somewhat related story...


http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32153


Mark

[Neil M]

Dave, this is a fascinating question and one that I can offer an answer to from the other end.

As someone who has recently taken up Aikido in addition to my sword training, I have suffered the problem of ' missing ' bits from shown technique.

I will be concentrating so hard on watching the lock or body movement being applied, that I will completely miss foot movement. I then partner up and wonder why I am so close to my partner...yes, I have taken a full step, not the half step demonstrated. Alternatively, I will concentrate so hard on a technique which is perhaps a variation of previously ingrained lock, that I end up driving my poor partner off in the wrong and very painful, direction. Yes, I should have moved backwards NOT forwards !

I have put these frequent misunderstandings down to two things. 1) My age, I am 46 and (2) many years spent with another Martial Art.

On the up side, I do find week on week that aspects of a technique ( like tenkan) which baffled me at first suddenly slot into place.

I think the older mind, while often more considered, is not as nimble as the younger mind, which does not always concentrate as it should.

[jailess]

It's not just an age thing; we have plenty of new 1st year uni students who have just joined out Dojo who are terrible** - You'd think that after 17 years the concepts of 'right' and 'left' would be reasonably ingrained in a person's body, but nooooooooo... "Other left, mate," every other lesson.

And stances: my Sensei's very fond of saying "No Praying Hedgehog stance, chudan gamae" (a basic boxing guard stance) to the new recruits who have assumed the KarateKid Crane technique on the assumption that that's how we want them to stand.

And stiffness: I've seen public statues that could move more freely.

At the end of the day, there are always good students that can see you do the technique first time and then go and do it after they've turned what they've seen around in their heads and put themselves in the place of you (assuming you're uke). Then there are lots more people who need lots more teaching. There's nothing to be done apart from show them, watch them do it, correct, show them again, move their damn limbs FOR them if you have to (assuming they're not too stiff to let you) and watch them again, and again, ang again, until they've got it. As long as they keep trying and making good effort, eventually they'll get it.

I learn best when the move/technique gets broken down into 3 sections: Hand movement, Tae Sabaki and Ashi Sabaki. Even if the sensei doesn't present it this way, I always try to watch his/her hands one time, body another time, and feet a third. Then, if there's time, I look at what's happening to Kohige/Tori. Unless I'm helping the sensei, in which case I'm normally falling.

**: I was also terrible when I started, so I feel I can comment on my crappy brethren.

[Martyn van Halm]

I trained in aikido for a year before I started kobujutsu. What I noticed straight away, that because watching a kobujutsu kata I had to broaden my view to incorporate body movement, distance, sword angle, footwork, etcetera, I tended to look differently at aikido technique when they were explained. In my first year before kobujutsu training, I tended to focus on the hand movements only or footwork only; in my second year, I could see the aikido technique as if they were a kobujutsu kata, i.e. I could see everything at once - the hands, the feet, the hip angle, the flow, the direction...
After that my aikido prowess advanced swifter than it would've if I'd stuck in my pre-kobujutsu mindset.

[Jock Armstrong]

Often a student doesn't actually understand that they aren't actually doing what you showed them. think of it this way- if you've never stood up properly and you have poor posture," stand up straight " is an order that has two completely different meanings to the the two people involved. i use this one because I have to teach nearly every young person how to stand up straight. I stand them against the wall and make sure only the heels and buttocks touch it. I then tell them to get the backs of the shoulders and their head to touch. Voila now standing up straight. Also, many new students have to learn to "see". they are usually incapable of focussing properly on what you are doing/saying/ demonstrating because they have never had to before.
Once you've gotten them onto the idea of actually paying attention you'll have a better chance of succeeding and fewer injuries. Having a routine- the bow in etc at the start marks the start of the lesson and acts as a reminder or memory jogger "Oh, it is time to switch on!". I like kata for the same reason- it switches their brains on because they have to remember a set sequence of movements as well as perform the movements themselves.

[BudoWig]

Pairing beginners with more seasoned students (whenever feasible) is helpful in the regard of ensuring that they don't make injurious mistakes. One thing I learned the value of immensely is to take things slow on the mat. Nobody is in a rush. Speed will come with patient practice. That's how I was taught, at least.

When I show technique to less-experienced practitioners, I go as slowly as possible in order for them to fully grasp every component of it. For the most part, the pace of my presentation is determined by how well the presentee processes what he/she is shown. However, I always begin showing technique as if the person has never seen it before, and we take it from there.

However, in large class settings, it is not always possible to give that kind of attention to each individual student or to have enough seasoned practitioners to go around.

That said, I have received my fair share of mat-related injuries in the past. However, the majority of those were due to my own oversights.

I'm sure that our own Chase Sensei can remember a little incident several years ago involving one of his homemade training tantos and my forehead. I mean, really, that thing was just pointy in all the wrong spots.

[wmuromoto]

Hi all,

This is an ongoing problem in teaching of any sports, not just martial arts. However, proper form in budo is particularly problematic because--especially in kata training--form is extremely important, perhaps even more so than any other physical endeavor such as competitive sports, perhaps similar to dance. In competitive sports, one could achieve a minimum of ability with mediocre body alignment by overstressing one's natural body alignment. That does, eventually, lead to problems for the participant. It's evident more so in dance injuries from bad body alignment. In budo, the danger is increased because wrong movement and body alignment does lead to injuries, whether self-induced or inflicted by one's training partner.

I find it an ongoing problem, and find this thread interesting. I'm curious to see other comments. Like one poster, I realized that some students don't know their own body, let alone basic martial "kihon," so a good deal of time now is spent on basic postures, body alignment and movement. When a person has never "stood straight," he/she won't know what you're talking about when you tell them to stand straight. Indeed!

Also, "seeing" is a problem that has been even described in Japanese documents, so we're not alone in our teaching problem. A kendo book I read once made a distinction between "looking" (ken, or miru) and "perceiving," (kan, or kanjiru). People may look at a technique, but unless they know how to learn from observation and to inculcuate visual examples into their own physical movements, they haven't really "seen," in terms of learning budo.

Trying to teach people how to observe closer is one way to improve learning. But that takes time, because sometimes beginners don't know what it is they are supposed to be looking at or for.

Breaking down techniques into component parts help too. That's what kihon are for, but it could help to look at particular problems and then try to break them down, creating new particularized kihon for your own dojo. I hesitated to do that in my own club until I saw my sempai in Japan do it in order to teach a "new generation" of Japanese koryu budo, and after all, creating kihon to teach traditional arts happen all the time. Shimizu Takaji did that when he created kihon for Shindo Muso-ryu jo and had them approved by the other masters of that art.

I also see it from the other side, as a student. It just takes time to learn new things, and the older I get (as others have observed) the harder it is for me to learn things, it seems. Repetition is the only cure for that, but mindful repetition (what IS it I am doing, why? Should I put my foot closer here or there?) is important. You have to have your mind engaged, not disengaged, in the movement. One of the problems, I think, with moderns is that sometimes we tend to disengage our minds from our bodies. Learning a physical art like budo, then, addresses an even more fundamental problem than unarmed self-defense: how to reconnect our mind with our body.

Well, anyway, my two cents' worth. Nice discussion here.

Wayne Muromoto

[Dave Humm]

As the original poster, let me explain a little about me and my teaching experiences; I've studied (thus far) aikido for 18 years and I've been running a dojo of my own for a little over a year however, I had co-run another dojo for aprox 5 years previously before that closed, I hold coaching qualifications from the Governing Body for Aikido in the UK and in addition, was professionally trained to teach whilst serving in the armed forces. I've spent several years in the capacity of a small arms instructor teaching both trained and untrained service personnel.

Over the years I've utilised very formal methods of instruction right through to quite informal coaching, as yet I haven't found an ideal compromise naturally because every student is individual. Many find the "Whole-Part-Whole" method perfectly adequate, whilst others need the applications/techniques to be broken down in detail. I have no problems delivering whatever the instructional needs of the class however I do sometimes find mixing teaching styles confuses the class compounding the problem of looking but not seeing

Regards as always

[davidgibb]

Theres one simple answer, although teachers view it as many different long winded reasons listed above me, you either get the technique from watching and listening, or you have to do the technique to get it.
I'm one of the people who get jack crap from watching the technique performed, it dosen't catch and my mind wanders. I however get the technique after trying it out a couple times with my partner. It's really not your method of teaching, it's dependent on how each and every students brain picks up differnt things.

[kongoshin]

I must agree with the last poster :-) Even though I had 7 years of dancing exerience before taking up Aikido, I found it very hard to just look at the techniques and do it properly. Feeling the technique with my body did, and does, all the difference. Of course, now it's another story, being more experienced I can pick up new techniques more easily.

However, I experienced the same beginners frustration a while ago while watching an advanced jo dori technique done by Hiroaki Kobayashi sensei...

Also, I found it very helpful being uke a lot. I think the most important think we can teach our students is to do proper ukemi. Oh yes, it's been said before, but it's so essential.

Using even beginners as uke when showing technique builds confidence in them, improves their skill, and keeps my mind alert. Showing technique with advanced students only will certainly look good - but it's so easy to forget where the real challenges are when doing the techniques with someone who does exactly what you expect them to do...

My advice: Use the students as uke alot and break the techniques down into smaller parts if neccessary.
Also sometimes I'll be showing the techniques for just a few times, letting the students try it, and then stopping them again after some time - explaining more in detail. That way the students will have something to relate to (Ahh... THAT's what I did wrong...).

Good luck!

(and Happy New Year to all!)

[Jock Armstrong]

Gee, thanks Dave Gibb- we might as well just stand still and tell people what to do and they'll teach themselves as long as they have a partner? No need for "long winded" explanations. Teaching method [and coaching] are extremely important. From what you said in your post, none of it matters because all students learn differently?? Recognising the inherent strengths and weaknesses of students [that includes their learning "style" is part of any good instructor's teaching method,

Basic teaching 101 [as taught in the army for practical lessons]

1] Perform technique at full speed.

2] Perform slowly and let everyone see it, talking thru it as you go- do it three or four times so students can move and see it from different angles.

3] Partner the student's up and talk them thru slowly.

4] Individual pairs practice- instructor moves around and coaches.

It works for any practical skill- whether it's bayonet fighting or kotegaeshi.

"Confirmation" is correct [ not perfect] application of the technique, either on command or as in the more kick/punch oriented arts, in sparring. In other words, you need to see it, then do it till you get it right.

No need for that long winded stuff..............