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Thread: How well do Koryu mix?

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    Default How well do Koryu mix?

    In general I was wondering if Koryu practitioners practiced more than one art and if they do why did they start studying an additional koryu? Was it to supplement their first art, or did they get the koryu bug?

    In particular, I was wondering if any of the DRAJJ folks had added Jo study to their training of DR? Did they see any improvement in their DR or did they seem to pick up the Jo study easier than their peers?

    Thanks,

    (I guess I'm assuming that Jo-Jujutsu is not part of the DR curriculum)
    bryan white

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    [Post deleted by user]
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 10th June 2014 at 23:03.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    I do not have any real experience mixing Daito ryu with other Koryu arts, but I do cross train in mixed martial arts. From my limited experience the body mechanics and aiki principles should be able to be aplied to other arts with out much difficulty.
    Kelley Carter
    Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu Renshinkan

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    I've been a Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu practioner for approximately a year and a half now. I recently started delving into Yanagi Ryu Aikijujutsu. I did it because I personally believe that there is no such thing as "bad" knowledge. I wanted to cross train in a ko ryu art that most closely resembled BBT in terms of biomechanics. From what I've seen so far they're both very compatible. Granted, if I had walked in on an AJJ class without prior experience in Budo, the subtle power of the art would probably have been too foreign for me to understand.
    Ryan J Pearson


    "why don't you go spam on the koryu boards, they have a great sense of humor..."

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    Not to drift this thread but…

    I have seen references to Yanagi ryu being koryu in the recent past. Having been a direct student of Don Angier and having done, and continuing to do, research on the arts history and it’s exponents, I would like to point out that at this time there is nothing verifiable to confirm that Yanagi ryu is a koryu art, and it should not be stated as being so. The art can only be traced back two generations before Don Angier, to his teacher’s father Yoshida Kotaro. Tracing the family line and the art before him has proven difficult due to some of his activities and associations prior to and during WW2. We have been unable to verify the arts existence prior to him. The most concrete being a photo of his son Kenji (Don’s teacher) in his teens in front of the family armor and a scroll reading “Yanagi ryu Aiki Bugei”, that has been dated to the mid 1920’s that is in the possession of Don Angier. Evidence has been found in reference to a Yanagi ryu associated to someone by the name of Yoshida, but as of yet we cannot confirm if it is the same family of Yoshida or the same Yanagi ryu. Yoshida is a very common name in Japan, and in the past Yanagi has also been used to refer to branches of Yoshin ryu. It is highly possible that the art is at the very least based in a koryu art(s), but the honest truth is at this point we just don’t know for sure.
    Richard Elias
    Takamura-ha Shindo Yoshin ryu
    Yanagi Ryu

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    Channeling Neil here: Serve good Scotch, and most styles mix quite well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Elias
    Not to drift this thread but…

    I have seen references to Yanagi ryu being koryu in the recent past. It is highly possible that the art is at the very least based in a koryu art(s), but the honest truth is at this point we just don’t know for sure.
    Nice post.

    Indeed it also seems that Daito-ryu is not classified as ko-ryu by most serious students of Japanese martial history.

    Rooted in ko-ryu? Certainly. Ko-ryu itself? Not verifiably, despite what oral traditions would have us think.
    Matthew Rogers
    Scarborough Martial Arts Training Group
    http://www.spiritforging.com

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    Is it wrong to consider Daito Ryu as Bujutsu ?
    Ryan Doherty

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    No I don't think so. It is a 'martial art' which is what that term means. It is just not verifiably ko-ryu with its present name in its present form.

    The manner in which daito-ryu and the Yanagi-ryu (that I've seen) perform waza seem consistant with ko-ryu technique but there histories can not be drawn with confidence back to the ko-ryu era.

    Also the degree of specialization in empty hand waza and the complexity of the system is not consistant with most ko-ryu systems.
    Matthew Rogers
    Scarborough Martial Arts Training Group
    http://www.spiritforging.com

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    For Yanagi ryu’s part I would venture to say that though the aikijujutsu gets more attention it’s actually predominantly a weapons art. There’s a lot more weapons than jujutsu, but it's all the aiki stuff that's gotten popular because it's pretty advanced, but it's also hard to learn. One of our students is fond of saying “there’s only like 6-7 techniques, but 100 different ways of using each of them”. Realistically, there are more than 6-7, but certain movements and principles repeat themselves often, and cross over to the weapons as well.
    Richard Elias
    Takamura-ha Shindo Yoshin ryu
    Yanagi Ryu

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    add to that the shite / nage role...the senior does not take the role of uketachi. Different paradigm from most koryu.

    Best,
    Ron (no dog in this race, just pointing out a fact.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mateo
    No I don't think so. It is a 'martial art' which is what that term means. It is just not verifiably ko-ryu with its present name in its present form.

    The manner in which daito-ryu and the Yanagi-ryu (that I've seen) perform waza seem consistant with ko-ryu technique but there histories can not be drawn with confidence back to the ko-ryu era.

    Also the degree of specialization in empty hand waza and the complexity of the system is not consistant with most ko-ryu systems.

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    [Post deleted by user]
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 10th June 2014 at 23:03.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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