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Thread: Thrusting technique

  1. #16
    Mekugi Guest

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    My next question would be when the yari kanji became common and how that date it compares to the dates on the Nara and Heian Hoko.

    This is gather interest for me, I may have to take a little trip in the near future to check this collecton out for myself (if they let me or are on display, that is).

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Friday
    If you're talking about the Nara and Heian era hoko, the bottom line, of course, is that there's no way to know. We have what we have, and nothing else. There's no particular reason--no evidence--however, for believing that the surviving hoko were different from hoko actually used in battle. And there is also the fact that the Japanese invented a character for yari that incorporates the ideograph for "slide," which pretty strongly suggests that this "pool cue" thrusting technique was a key feature of the newer type of spear.

  2. #17
    Mekugi Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mekugi

    This is gather interest for me
    EESH...make that gathering...I need to type when I have more time.

  3. #18
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    Is there any chance that the Hoko were still in use or extant in any way at all other than legend or archaological terms in the 16th century? The name is used in one of the Takeuchi Ryu waza and I was wondering if it had any links to the spear variety? Or if it simply reflected the use of a long staff like weapon..Any thoughts on this?
    My regards.
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  4. #19
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    It is my understanding that hoko were largely abandoned by mid-Heian, supplanted by new tactics and naginata. By the way, the hoko had a socketed spear head, not nearly as secure as the tanged spear-head usual on yari. Yari began to be used in Kamakura period, and increasingly supplanted the naginata.
    Hoko continued to be used as a generic term for polearms - there is a nagamaki kata in Buko-ryu called "nagiboko." But the weapon, itself, was long gone by the time that ryu were established.

    best

  5. #20
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    Thank you Mr. Amdur,
    I see, I had always just assumed that the Hoko we referred to was a "theoretical" spear...Or as you say, one that was represented by a staff..But it makes perfect sense that the term was kept to mean something along the lines of a spear..Long and dangerous at least.
    I had read the essay in "Old School" and was rather interested when the term came up in training. It is performed against a Rokushakubo.
    Thank you.
    My regards.
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  6. #21
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    Default Spiral Tsuki for soujutsu in TSKSR?

    I posted this elsewhere (without a good answer) so I might as well stick it here where it is a hub of information. Plus activity is always low so might as well break the ice =)

    Anyway I've been doing TSKSR for awhile, and observed that soujutsu (spear) is part of its curriculum. Does the use of the yari in TSKSR have spiral thrusts, similar to many Kungfu systems and Owari Kan Ryu? Or are the thrusts... thrusts?

    Just to clarify, by spiral I mean how the staff's rotational axis will be outside of the staff itself. So it rotates around an external rather than internal axis.

    EDIT: Is soujutsu taught before or after naginatajutsu?
    Last edited by Nii; 19th October 2007 at 10:21.
    -John Nguyen

  7. #22
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    Where I train KSR Sugino-ha, sojutsu is taught at a later point than naginatajutsu. I do not know how much later though. I guess there are always differences in this matter, based on dojo, teacher and student.
    Theodor B. Onarheim

  8. #23
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYjFpb1G4D4

    After what I have seen there is no spiral thrust like what I have seen in Chinese martial art. But don’t take my word for it.
    Steffen Gjerding
    Kakudokan dojo

    Yup, lousy english

  9. #24
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    In the original tv show, which the video mentioned above comes from, it looks like the lead hand is rotating clockwise.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

  10. #25
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    Don't kill my newfound passion for Kenjutsu. I'm trying to improve the rate of discussion on these forums as well. I'm also hoping to talk to people that study TSKSR as well, are you suggesting I shouldn't?

    Anyway it is hard to tell during the kata (as the thrust generally gets interrupted). I will ask during my next training session.

    Here is a video of Owari Kan Ryu that I found very impressive:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCeHuv2M5NY
    -John Nguyen

  11. #26
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    There are not many that would discuss the technique on an internet forum. I could comment a thing and two but I would not like to discuss it openly. When someone not in the ryu says something completely wrong I could comment it. The technique is for the ryus practitioner only (also the politics). So find those that train and send them private messages. But still you should know that discussing techniques over internet is not accurately enough, only face to face is good enough. As long as you know that it is good to go.
    Steffen Gjerding
    Kakudokan dojo

    Yup, lousy english

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by [QUOTE=Stefffen
    Quote Originally Posted by Nii
    Here is a video of Owari Kan Ryu that I found very impressive:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCeHuv2M5NY
    Both the videos from youtube are from the same show. There are other ryuha that were on the show so you may see those too.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

  13. #28
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    Was this from the Nihon Kobudo series?
    Kevin Geaslin
    Genbukan Ninpo & Kokusai Jujutsu

  14. #29
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    No, It is a TV show that covered many ryuha including Takenouchi-ryu, Katori Shinto-ryu, Daito-ryu, Taisha-ryu, Owari Kan-ryu and others.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Geaslin View Post
    Was this from the Nihon Kobudo series?
    This one is from the Nihon Kobudo series:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leKwXXxG1_A

    *edit*

    Just a brief mention: They dont portray the Sojutsu part in the full episode of Nihon Kobudo featuring TSKSR I'm afraid.
    Fredrik Hall
    "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." /Confucius

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