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Thread: Importing a Shinken from Japan

  1. #1
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    Question Importing a Shinken from Japan

    Hi All,

    I am wondering if anyone has had an experience of either importing a shinken from Japan or going over to Japan and bringing a shinken back with them If so could you describe (briefly) the process? How time consuming is it? The reason I ask is that when I was last in Japan I attended a number of iaido tounaments where they had used shinken for sale. I was tempted to make a purchase but was unsure as to the legalities of taking the sword out of the country. I am aware you need a permit to travel within Japan with a shinken but am uncertain what paperwork you need in order to leave the country with one (also unsure how long the process would take). Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

    Thanks,
    Dan Botari

  2. #2

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    Generally they need to be delicensed and exported. Every seller I've ever dealt with has handled that for me and shipped it back home for me. Paperwork, lots of paperwork...

  3. #3

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    I just realized I gave a really short answer. It really isn't complicated, but generally you can't get it done during a short trip.

    The way it works is that weapons are highly regulated in Japan. Basically most are completely banned at the end of WWII. Exceptions were made in the 50's for so-called "art swords". Those need to be licensed. Smiths are regulated in how many they can make and owners must have a license for their sword (called a torokusho fwiw). The torokusho has to stay with the sword at all times. Heck, even if someone finds one in their attic they're supposed to run down to the local police station, get a "permissions slip" to go to the torokushu shinsa, then get their papers for the piece. These aren't papers in the sense of authentication papers (this is a genuine Masamune masterpiece), but papers identifying the sword in question (the sword is x shaku and signed "Masamune" or whatever with no statement as to authenticity).

    When you want to export you need to delicense the sword and get an export permit. They go to a governmental agency (whose name I don't recall off the top of my head) to turn in the torokusho. They will also require photos of the sword and nakago. A few weeks later they issue the export permit. I think it is good for 30 days, but I'm not sure.

    With that permit you can carry the sword out of customs or ship it out with whatever commercial carrier you wish. But it has to be done from a certain post office so they can check the permit against the blade going out.

    So basically no hanky panky allowed. And unless you plan to be there for a few weeks you're going to need someone to do the paperwork and legwork for you. Most vendors will do this because a large part of their business involves shipping to collectors around the world.

    So also realize that just because you buy something off a website you may not be able to get it for upwards of 2-3 weeks. It just takes time to get through the paperwork.

    If you can get it sooner, well, someone is playing fast and loose. And that should give you pause...

    Probably more than you wanted to know... Back to work for me...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdlarman
    When you want to export you need to delicense the sword and get an export permit. They go to a governmental agency (whose name I don't recall off the top of my head) to turn in the torokusho. They will also require photos of the sword and nakago. A few weeks later they issue the export permit. I think it is good for 30 days, but I'm not sure.

    With that permit you can carry the sword out of customs or ship it out with whatever commercial carrier you wish. But it has to be done from a certain post office so they can check the permit against the blade going out.
    Hello Keith The Bunkacho (Ministry of Culture) who have people in the (Kyoikucho Ministry of Education). Even then it depends on how the present head of the Bunkacho wants to interpret the laws. It could mean anything from a simple slip of paper from a local office and the Torokucho being kept in a drawer to as you say making up a pamphlet of sword and fittings with pictures and the Torokucho being sent to Tokyo.

    Nowadays it's the latter.

    I often wonder who actually owns the weapons I have taken in and out? One would think they are just on loan to me in going to so much trouble.
    Hyakutake Colin

    All the best techniques are taught by survivors.


    http://www.hyoho.com

  5. #5

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    Yeah, there is also apparently a lot of, um, how to say it nicely, "wiggle room" in how things really get done with some people at least. There is the law, the interpretation of the law, and those who seem to find ways of stepping over and around some of the details of the laws. But heaven forbid you're a relative nobody and you get caught in violation.

    But the bottom line is that they are *supposed* to be highly controlled and in many respects it is the Allies after WWII who are to blame for the beginning of all of this. And honestly, you'd think they'd come up with a better way to deal with the things given how people travel nowadays. I feel sorry for guys like you who travel in and out extensively. It has to be an incredible waste of time for you guys.

    Some have guys like us polish and mount modern swords to keep here for when they visit so they don't have to worry about bringing swords in and out of Japan.

    And don't get me started on the rules about sword production, methods, who gets the better supply of "good" tamahagane, etc. There are so many rumors and inside jokes about those areas.

    But it is a society of rules... Lots of rules...

  6. #6
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    Just had a look at your website. I have to say you do nice work.


    Quote Originally Posted by kdlarman
    Yeah, there is also apparently a lot of, um, how to say it nicely, "wiggle room" in how things really get done with some people at least. There is the law, the interpretation of the law, and those who seem to find ways of stepping over and around some of the details of the laws. But heaven forbid you're a relative nobody and you get caught in violation.

    But the bottom line is that they are *supposed* to be highly controlled and in many respects it is the Allies after WWII who are to blame for the beginning of all of this. And honestly, you'd think they'd come up with a better way to deal with the things given how people travel nowadays. I feel sorry for guys like you who travel in and out extensively. It has to be an incredible waste of time for you guys.

    Some have guys like us polish and mount modern swords to keep here for when they visit so they don't have to worry about bringing swords in and out of Japan.

    And don't get me started on the rules about sword production, methods, who gets the better supply of "good" tamahagane, etc. There are so many rumors and inside jokes about those areas.

    But it is a society of rules... Lots of rules...
    [CENTER]Robert Rousselot

    [B][I]Yeah, I’m humble…..I’m just not obsequious--- me [/I][/B]
    [B][I]Human behavior flows from three main sources; desire, emotion, and knowledge --- Plato[/I][/B][/CENTER]

  7. #7
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    You would have to laugh when they all turned up at my house to make their little booklet.

    They lay out a sheet outside then find out by just standing they can't get far enough away to get the whole blade into a shot. One is standing on a motor scooter seat with two more trying to hold him and the scooter up. The whole thing looked like circus act. Then of course they want you too disassemble everything. Because they have not go the faintest idea of how to do it.

    It was so much trouble they rearranged the rules to say, "Now we have the info we wont need to do this again".

    I know it's all tied up with Bunkacho but they have little or no connection with customs. Once coming back I walked right through customs control and right out of the airport. They never even asked me what was in the sword bag!
    Hyakutake Colin

    All the best techniques are taught by survivors.


    http://www.hyoho.com

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertRousselot
    Just had a look at your website. I have to say you do nice work.
    Thank you.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyaku
    You would have to laugh when they all turned up at my house to make their little booklet...
    Sounds like it was a fun time. Next time you need video tape...

    I've had a few almost surreal experiences travelling with swords just inside the US. And over the years I've had some really fun times with customs here. Once with rayskin for tsuka getting held up in the customs agricultural department, another with customs not understanding ibota, the waxy insect "secretion" powdery stuff used in traditional burnishing. I guess they don't have a check box for "bug poop" on the forms.

  10. #10
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    Default Thanks to all for your input.

    I just want to say thank you to everyone who posted. The information is very useful.
    Dan Botari

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