Gekisai Dai Ichi

[Gimbo]

Just want to make sre I got the spelling of this right.
The kata (at least the way I learned it) starts out like sanchin turns left into sanchin dachi high block forward zenkutsu-dachi punch back into shiko dachi low block. Not sure how well the kata is known or the history behind it but I want to get the spelling right and if anyone knows the history that would be nice too.

[wreddock]

The Kata is - Gekisai Dai Ichi - Goju Ryu

See all Goju Kata here. http://www.syracusejundokan.com/kata.asp

[Gimbo]

Everything I wanted and more, thanks wreddock.

[bluejay]

Gekisai Dai Ni is my favorite kata. It's a much better than the Fukyugatas I've learned. Probably, my favorite will change because I only know 5 katas. When I watch the Brown and Black Belts do it, they make it look so easy. I've noticed that the Gekisai kata's are short and somewhat simple. However, I still working on them.

I have seen other styles do Gekisai Dai Ichi. I noticed that they changed a little of it and didn't do the breathing. Is Gojo-Ryu is the only style that does the "Sanchin" breathing?

[Goju Man]

I have seen other styles do Gekisai Dai Ichi. I noticed that they changed a little of it and didn't do the breathing. Is Gojo-Ryu is the only style that does the "Sanchin" breathing?

We used to do it in my dojo, but the majority of Goju schools I've seen don't. I personally like the Higaonna version.

[Shikiyanaka]

Hi,

I also train in Goju-ryu and learn Gekisai Dai Ichi. I often wonder if the real "change" was not to incorporate the Sanchin breathing (and other methods) into all the other Kata, even though they may teach different "overall principles". Just a thought.

Some scenes including some from Gekisai:
http://www.ryukyu-kobudo.eu/Lesestoff/Artikel.htm (scroll one page down)

[CEB]

Hi,

I also train in Goju-ryu and learn Gekisai Dai Ichi. I often wonder if the real "change" was not to incorporate the Sanchin breathing (and other methods) into all the other Kata, even though they may teach different "overall principles". Just a thought.

Some scenes including some from Gekisai:
http://www.ryukyu-kobudo.eu/Lesestoff/Artikel.htm (scroll one page down)

What do you mean by all other methods? (I'm just curious because I think you have particular things in mind.)

All kata contains breathing, else you turn blue and passout. There are reasons NOT to practice audible breath in the kaishu kata. But you still breathe and in specific ways.

Hi Manny.

Everybody have a good week

Goodbye.

[Shikiyanaka]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikiyanaka
Hi,

I also train in Goju-ryu and learn Gekisai Dai Ichi. I often wonder if the real "change" was not to incorporate the Sanchin breathing (and other methods) into all the other Kata, even though they may teach different "overall principles". Just a thought.

Some scenes including some from Gekisai:
http://www.ryukyu-kobudo.eu/Lesestoff/Artikel.htm (scroll one page down)



What do you mean by all other methods? (I'm just curious because I think you have particular things in mind.)

All kata contains breathing, else you turn blue and passout. There are reasons NOT to practice audible breath in the kaishu kata. But you still breathe and in specific ways.

Hi Manny.

Everybody have a good week

Goodbye.

Dear Ed,

I was thinking about the notes on muscle tension etc. given in Higaonna Morio's 4 Volume books. Things like "locking the joints", moving with tensioned muscles, moving with the least possible antagonistic muscle tension etc.

I was also thinking on the texts on Sanzinsoo's Homepage:

http://uk.geocities.com/sanzinsoo/higa.html

(7) In the beginning, originally, they performed Sanchin with open hands. They struck with Nukite (= spear-hand). Different from today’s hard breathing sound, they breathed so silently that the others could hardly notice. Also different from today’s Sanchin training, the teacher never struck shoulders of students. There was no such a training method.

(9) It seemed that Chojun Miyagi went to Fuzhou, China not for studying martial arts but for a minor business. After returning to Okinawa from China, he asked Kanryo Higaonna, "In China, I saw they were breathing with making sound ’Huu Huu Haa Haa’ like a roar of a very large snake when they were practicing Sanchin. What do you think of this breathing method?" Higaonna replied, "Theirs is genuine. Ours is genuine, too. What I have taught you so far is authentic. Everything is slow to mature. Training from the inside is genuine. You are still full of youthful vigor."

At a party, Master Seiko Higa also danced "Manzai Tichiuchi", an Okinawan traditional dance. He was mild-mannered and gentle like a spring breeze. He was free and flexible. He was a genius of karate-do.

http://uk.geocities.com/sanzinsoo/oral.html

(14) To decide who won or lost the fight, the masters held a competition of strength and Kata (= kungfu forms) between the two students. Kanryo Higaonna performed Kata very well with striking at lightning speed, kicking and very fast movements of his body. Seeing Kanryo Higaonna’s awesome and magnificent Kata performance, the strongest student of Wai Shi Zan accepted his master’s advice and was reconciled with Kanryo Higaonna.

(20) (20) The prototype of Sanchin that Kanryo Higaonna taught in the early days in Okinawa is as follows.
1- Different from today’s Sanchin, your hands should be always open hands (= Nukite or spear-hand), not closed hands or fists.
2- You strike with Nukite (= spear-hand) very quickly and bring back your hand to the basic Sanchin position.
3- The sound of breathing almost cannot be heard. When your Nukite is brought back to the basic Sanchin position, you make the short and sharp sound of breathing.
4- In the late days, Kanryo Higaonna modified the striking speed of Sanchin; changing the very quick striking into the slow motion.

(21) Chojun Miyagi went to Fuzhou, China on business of tea trading. After returning to Okinawa, he asked Sensei Kanryo Higaonna about Sanchin in China, “In Fuzhou, China, they were breathing with the sound ‘Haa Haa’ or ‘Fuu Fuu’ like a giant snake roaring when they performed Sanchin. Why don't we have such a breathing way?” Sensei Higaonna replied, “Theirs are authentic. And ours are authentic, too.” Then again Chojun Miyagi asked, “If so, will you teach me their breathing way with the sound?” Sensei Higaonna replied immediately, “You are too young to learn it.”

(22) After Sensei Higaonna passed away, Chojun Miyagi began teaching karate at a commercial school in Naha. About at that time, he modified Sanchin gradually. He changed open hands into closed hands or fists when he struck and pulled back. [B]Later he made sounds when he was breathing in and breathing out. Eventually he made Sanchin of Goju-Ryu as we are doing now.

I really don't know if I do Kata wrong or right; I do it just as "good" as I can, according to my little understanding of it.

[Todd Lambert]

I read in one of Soshin Nagamine's books that Kanryo Higaonna was the one who changed sanchin from an open-handed nukite strike to closed-fist punch. Many other sources claim it was Chojun Miyagi. Is there a general consensus/actual evidence over who made the changes?

[Prince Loeffler]

I read in one of Soshin Nagamine's books that Kanryo Higaonna was the one who changed sanchin from an open-handed nukite strike to closed-fist punch. Many other sources claim it was Chojun Miyagi. Is there a general consensus/actual evidence over who made the changes?

Hello Todd !

Which book was this ?

[Todd Lambert]

Which book was this ?

I don't recall which one - I know of two published in English. I can check next time I go to the local library...

[Prince Loeffler]

I don't recall which one - I know of two published in English. I can check next time I go to the local library...

Thanks Todd ! I can't seem to find it in the two books I have. ( Essense of Okinawan Karate-do and Tales of the Masters)

[Todd Lambert]

Thanks Todd ! I can't seem to find it in the two books I have. ( Essense of Okinawan Karate-do and Tales of the Masters)

Maybe my recollection is faulty. I saw it somewhere recently, but I read so many blogs, homepages, books, magazines, etc. that they sometimes get a bit jumbled

EDIT: found it on Mario McKenna's blog. I must have read that post during the period I was reviewing Nagamine's book.

[Gimbo]

It would be interesting to see how sanchin is done with open hands.

[Todd Lambert]

It would be interesting to see how sanchin is done with open hands.

You could just watch some Uechi-ryu guys practice sanchin. They do their version open-handed. This outta get ya started.