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Thread: gedan mawashi geri difference?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin H
    In kyokushin you get half point if the opponent goes down, but gets up again within 3-5 seconds (varies between org), if he stays down longer you get a full point=win.
    How a technique looks or what type it is is totaly irrelevant. Kyokushin, point karate, trad karate, muaythai or tkd type kick. -it does not matter as long as
    it downs the opponent.
    Martin,

    Yes,I would think(please Martin correct if I am wrong in my way of thinking) that because kyokushin does not allow for clinching or plumming along with knees to the head,that this changes the whole concept or way someone can fight a Kyokushiun match,as opposed to fighting a Muaythai match.


    If your opponent is not allowed to clinch you,grab you or knee you in the head,like in muaythai,then I would assume that one is able to constantly fight the the match from a farther distance.This does two things 1) It allows more of a kicking game to materialize,which in return allows for more snappier type kicks to have their say 2) when you do get inside(where no clinching is allowed)fighters find very clever ways to deliver snappier types of head kicks off the break,which are harder to do with Muaythai type of kicks.


    In other words the muaythai practicioner (becasue of it's rules)is simlilar to say a MMA practioner that only wants to throw a stronger type of kick which makes it harder for your opponent to clinch afterwards.

    IMO,it's not nessecsarily a point about wether one kick is better than the other one.It's more that the rules dictate the way the fight is fought.In K1 for instance were very little clinching is allowed nowadays,one actualy happens to see more snappier type round kicks from time to time.

    If a good fighter went to bangkok and fought at lumpini stadium using or implementing the snappier types of kick strategy.He might be able to pull it off if he's real good but the downside to this,is that this will expose himself more for clinch type opportunities for his opponent.This is why the Thais opt by inlarge to stay away from them.Both are great kicks to have IMO in one arsenal both are tough fight sports,hell Iv'e seen a couple of knockouts in MMA with snappier type kicks.
    Last edited by hectokan; 27th April 2006 at 18:42.
    Hector Gomez
    "Todo es Bueno"

  2. #17
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    Hmm..some Kyokushin fighters definitely throw more of a muay thai style kick while others throw it a bit differently. From the Kyokushin tourny I competed in yesterday I noticed some would snap it, and others would bring it up and down putting more hip into it, and almost a whip(almost like a low brazilian/maha/crocodiles tail whip kick)kick...I even know some kickboxers that throw them this way. One such fighter that won the middleweight division definitely used more of a muay thai style kick.
    Brian Culpepper

  3. #18
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    Default Hard to describe

    This has gotten me thinking about how I kick and show kicking to others. In the class I was teaching last year, we got to where I could start discussing the very small circles you can make with your hip and knee, which do produce a sort of snappier looking kick but allow you to do the downward roundhouse kick which does hit with a lot of force.

    In general I taught gedan with a wide circle that emphasized the insertion of the hip deeply into the pads. This produces a lot of penetration and requires less force to be generated, which is good for smaller people. I found that as they became accustomed to it, they would begin eliminating extraneous body motion for their size and weight.

    I did teach the Kyokushin style of keeping the leg parallel to the floor. Interestingly enough this wasn't to different from what my thai teachers showed us back in 1990. Although I notice more people in MMA getting kind of sloppy and throwing it more upwards, which I have found glances off more. However, maybe it allows faster recovery to protect from the shoot. Just something I have noticed.

    When you are throwing the kick at full speed all that fine detail begins to decrease, but you stand a better chance of throwing a more effective kick if you have drilled those details incessantly, imo.
    Glenn R. Manry

    ---Iaijutsu, don't forget the doorman.

  4. #19
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    I know what you're talking about and perhaps I'm talking about some Kyokushin practitioners that got sloppy? I have literally seen some that don't put their hips into it and snap the gedan mawashi geri.
    While I have seen others that do what you described you have also seen in some muay thai gyms..and I have seen some that do more of a muay thai style where they lock the leg more and will chop it down or keep it at the same level.
    Brian Culpepper

  5. #20
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    Overall, I tend to treat all the above as just variations. At some moment in time any one of them could work. I really try to get people to be as responsive and comfortable as possible with doing what is necessary to land the technique.

    Having done TKD, kyokushin, and muay thai, I try to present as much about kicking "theory" as possible, given the capabilities of the individual. People just absorb as much as they can and put it into practice, I hope.
    Glenn R. Manry

    ---Iaijutsu, don't forget the doorman.

  6. #21
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    Wow! Interesting technical coversation. Thanks everyone for the read!

    Having come originally from a TKD background myself that did not have any "real" lows kicks (I was always told that if you can kick high, you can kick low, which is BS in my opinion) and then moving to a Kyokushin derivative style for the last 15 years and also having trained for a short while with two guys who trained in MT in Thailand (years ago) it was quite an eye opener for the differences and variations in the kicks.

    A back condition and a herniated disc made me appreciate a variation of the low kick that was mentioned above with the downward "chopping" motion. (The severe torquing of MT started to cause me problems.) I have seen Ishi of Seido Karate due this kick in an older video, but it seems to be an amalgam of the MT and Kyokushin derived kicks. It is a bit slower and if done on-axis, facing your opponent, presents problems when face punches are allowed.

    However, performing it would come from that traditional plant of the Kyokushin player with the supporting foot flat on the ground and not pivoting (in real application you would be on the balls of your feet with slight pivoting motions of the foot, but this is necessary for training purposes here) so that the kicking leg is whipped in a circular fashion over the hip joint, not turned inward as a hinged door, impacting with the flat of the shin bone about 3-6 inches above the ankle. This requires a slight turn and bend of the torso and your body weight being directed loosely in the direction of the kick so that you transition you mass into the kick, thus one needs to be wary of face punches.

    In this case, the impact zone is on the equator of the opponent's thigh with better contact made along the outer edge of the leg about 50 percent of the way between the hip joint and the knee where the muscularture is less dense than on the front of the quad and where it's occasionally possible to hit the nerves there to add a little "umph" to the kick. In sparring this does less to pain the opponent noting the presence of adrenaline, but does give a nice dead-leg...and in some cases can collapse an opponent not used to the contact on that limb.

    Generally, this type of kick comes into its own from close in and to the side of your opponent...especially if grabs are allowed.

    -Brad Burklund
    Brad Burklund

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Burklund
    Wow! Interesting technical coversation. Thanks everyone for the read!

    Having come originally from a TKD background myself that did not have any "real" lows kicks (I was always told that if you can kick high, you can kick low, which is BS in my opinion) and then moving to a Kyokushin derivative style for the last 15 years and also having trained for a short while with two guys who trained in MT in Thailand (years ago) it was quite an eye opener for the differences and variations in the kicks.

    A back condition and a herniated disc made me appreciate a variation of the low kick that was mentioned above with the downward "chopping" motion. (The severe torquing of MT started to cause me problems.) I have seen Ishi of Seido Karate due this kick in an older video, but it seems to be an amalgam of the MT and Kyokushin derived kicks. It is a bit slower and if done on-axis, facing your opponent, presents problems when face punches are allowed.

    However, performing it would come from that traditional plant of the Kyokushin player with the supporting foot flat on the ground and not pivoting (in real application you would be on the balls of your feet with slight pivoting motions of the foot, but this is necessary for training purposes here) so that the kicking leg is whipped in a circular fashion over the hip joint, not turned inward as a hinged door, impacting with the flat of the shin bone about 3-6 inches above the ankle. This requires a slight turn and bend of the torso and your body weight being directed loosely in the direction of the kick so that you transition you mass into the kick, thus one needs to be wary of face punches.

    In this case, the impact zone is on the equator of the opponent's thigh with better contact made along the outer edge of the leg about 50 percent of the way between the hip joint and the knee where the muscularture is less dense than on the front of the quad and where it's occasionally possible to hit the nerves there to add a little "umph" to the kick. In sparring this does less to pain the opponent noting the presence of adrenaline, but does give a nice dead-leg...and in some cases can collapse an opponent not used to the contact on that limb.

    Generally, this type of kick comes into its own from close in and to the side of your opponent...especially if grabs are allowed.

    -Brad Burklund

    I can also attest to the fact and swear on a bible that the kick Brad speaks of is the most painfull, excruciating, hellish, nightmarish, and sickening techniques one can experience when at the recieving end.
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerof0ne
    As some of you may allready also know when you do this you're pivoting so much that your supporting foot heel will almost be pointed at your target.
    Does this mean that the Muay Thai or Brazilian style of low roundhouse exposes more of your back to your opponent if he parries or moves out of the way of your kick?
    Charles Ainsworth

  9. #24
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    Not necessarily exposing your back but possibly exposing your side. Some Muay Thai and kickboxing schools teach to spin all the way through if you miss with this kick. I was taught not to do so and that this is a risky habbit, I have seen a few people get hurt because of this.
    The reason why you pivot so much on the supporting foot is so you can follow through with your hip to generate more power. I will not always pivot on my supporting foot if I want to throw a quick leg kick to set up for a "bomb", but it won't be as powerful and will probably be with more instep then shin when doing so.
    Brian Culpepper

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