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Thread: Isshin Ryu?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsteigner
    ...what is your point in the msg. Is something wrong with Shin Sensei Dojo having a seminar? Is it because Kerker Sensei is giving the seminar? Or is this just a general warning to the masses.

    ...i guess i just dont get the point of your msg. Sorry
    It appeared to me to be a response to the general tone of the thread. It didn't seem to have anything specific to do with your post, having been posted 10 days after yours.

    I think if you start at the top of the thread again, and read the first few posts (and especially the 2nd), you'll see what smclain3 was responding to.

    HTH.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  2. #17
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    Hi Brian,

    There is no simple way to characterize Isshinryu across the United States. It didn't spread in any one way, but rather each Marine who returned from Okinawa who choose to pass the art did so on their own.

    Some joined with others, some remained on their own. They trained for different periods of time, longer in the late 50's early 60's, shorter as Vietnam took over the horizon. They covered different material by their training, by the instructors work on his system, and by what they remembered, for the system was taught in the normal Okinawan method, hands on, not by books, movies or other means.

    Only a hand full had more than 1 yr, to 1 1/2 years training.

    Doesnt' sound like much, but they literally started karate in many portions of the states, and what they represent covers an extremly wide range of material and viewpoints.

    Politics, participation or not, became one of the early stumbling blocks. And as much on Okinawa from what I understand. Isshinryu's founder, Shimabuku Tatsuo, lost many Okinawan students for teaching the Americans, and on the devisiveness of the systems succession when his son took over the reins.

    Different groups within Isshinryu hold different opinions about who should be in charge. The last time I looked, nobody really has won.

    On Okinawa, Isshinryu has a very small presence, I've only heard of 3 dojo remaining. The Isshinryu that is presented in the States, is solidly based on Shimabuku Tatsuo's teachings but a case can be made that the system has almost left Okinawa. I can't prove or disprove, simply the next 50 years will prove it. Personally I hope it does remain strong on Okinawa, but practicing Isshinryu for 33 years I'm more than a little prejudiced.

    As for rank, well when Isshinryu was formed in the mid 50's, was the same time rank was being passed out on Okinawan in any case. Shimabuku, creating his own system, obviously didn't feel he had to ask anyone's permission how he awarded rank. There is a logical case, practicing most of his life without rank anyways, did he really think rank had much merit. If it made students feel good perhaps it was a good idea.

    In any case his teachings have preservered in literally hundreds of American dojo.

    Now as there is literally no universally approved Isshinryu organization, each developed their own standards. And yes today there are many times many 9th and 10 dans, which I have come to accept, fully, as the originators of American Karate taking the time to recognize themselves.

    Is that bad, is that good? THey're not 25 year old 9th dans, most have practice about 40+ years. What they've created has passed to their students.

    In all cases, rank really is just a Japanese confidence trick, that from my perspective didn't work in Japan. Why did Funakoshi a few years after in Japan find many karate systems he had never heard of? Or why did so many keep breaking away forming their own systems.

    Give me a break, rank envy or desire has always been there.

    Of course Japan thought they had some rules. THe rest of the world understood there are no rules, and volia...... the curren era.

    Isshinryu is very worthy and Isshinryu may be very much less. It depends on where you look.

    Just a personal note, George Shin is a true martial gentleman, and his hosting John Kerker is not a plug for anything. John is a student of the late Sherman Harrill, who trained in Okinawa alongside my original instructor, Tom Lewis.

    Sherman spent the rest of his life working on the application potential (bunkai for lack of a stronger word) of kata technique. He literally tore a technique apart into uncountable applications all of which drop people very quickly.

    I've seen many efficient martial artists, but if someone really wants to know how their art can work, I can't recommend anyone better than John Kerker, no matter what style you study. But then I've been there on the receiving end of Sherman's unending applications.

    And there are many other worthy Isshinryu stylists, Advincula Sensei, being another worth mentioning.

    But the full Isshinryu story, and I only know a small piece, is too vast to simply characterize.
    Victor Smith
    Bushi No Te Isshinryu
    www.funkydragon.com/bushi

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