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Thread: what about love?

  1. #16
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    My understanding is that there's nothing wrong with desire... it's the attachment to getting or not getting what we desire that creates suffering (often resulting in feeling either less than or better than others which kills compassion). Trying to do away with desire or ego, etc. is useless, it's the way we are. Attachment is different though, and certainly, suffering is a choice.

    Difficult to talk about, for sure.

    Best regards,
    Chuck Clark
    Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
    http://www.jiyushinkai.org

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cufaol
    Please do follow your heart. Just use your brains while doing so.
    ... that could become a problem sometimes ... but i have the same opinion ... thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Wylie
    In my opinion, the most destructive element is the desire to possess.
    ... and there is the other problem - also described as "jealousy" i think - sometimes hard to handle.
    i agree with you ...
    sven hebbe

    there will be nothing ...

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheb
    ... and there is the other problem - also described as "jealousy" i think - sometimes hard to handle.
    I had a highschool teacher once who told me that jealousy is one of the mean reasons people do evil deeds. I think he really touched the truth (or at least a part of it) by saying that.
    I also believe MA can really help doing a way with things like jealousy.

    cheers, Christophe.


    Regards,
    Christophe van Eysendyck.

  4. #19
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    Default Not on topic, but...

    Am I the only one who is reminded of the Heart song everytime the thread name appears?

    Be well,
    Jigme
    Jigme Chobang Daniels
    aoikoyamakan at gmail dot com

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenkyusha
    Am I the only one who is reminded of the Heart song everytime the thread name appears?
    You are not alone.

    I'm a long-time Seattle-area resident; and we claim Heart, even though their first big success came after they fled to Canada to avoid the draft -- well, Ann & Nancy didn't have to worry, but the men did.

    Anyway, I liked What About Love, but Dreamboat Annie still has the bigger part of my Heart. (Pun intended.)
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cufaol
    You and your best friend both fall in love with someone, but your friend gets to start a realtionship with that person, and you feel jealous.
    What would you do if you would be "your best friend"? You would have a problem, wouldn't you? I would.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cufaol
    #3 Who told you to go out on your own and live in the woods???
    ... the fact that monks live in a monastery or for example that buddha sat a lot of years under a tree before he got satori. ... but i didn't want to say that i think that something like this is necessary.

    why i thought you have to lose all desire and why i thought there would be a conflict between our way of live and zen? because i have read that buddha had to lose even his will to search for something after he had practised different kind of religious things ... that in the end there was only the pure existence, nothing in his mind, no needs ... and no desire ...
    of course i know that there is a difference between this and zen buddhism today ... and that what "normal" people (can/should) do if they try to follow the ideals of zen buddhism.
    sven hebbe

    there will be nothing ...

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheb
    What would you do if you would be "your best friend"? You would have a problem, wouldn't you? I would.

    why i thought you have to lose all desire and why i thought there would be a conflict between our way of live and zen? because i have read that buddha had to lose even his will to search for something after he had practised different kind of religious things ... that in the end there was only the pure existence, nothing in his mind, no needs ... and no desire ...
    1. ofcourse I'd have a problem. As a general guideline in this kind of tricky situations, I use the following : Never allow for a third party to interfere with or disturb your relationship with your best friend. I can tell you that life has taught me that lesson very well indeed. Besides, it is imho a question of honour. Do you allow for something like jealousy to ruin a good and important relationship? I wouldn't think so.

    2. I like to think there are many ways and paths to reach the top of the mountain. You can sit under a tree, or you can practise the ideals in every day life. It's just like the different orders of monks in christianity : Augustin monks aren't the same as Jezuits etc. But in the end they all strive towards the same goal. Therein lays the beauty of it. For each individual there's a different path to follow, but we all walk towards the same goal in the end.

    Anyway, it is very difficult to do 'the right thing'. One might wonder wether there even is such a thing like "the right thing?


    cheers, Christophe.


    Regards,
    Christophe van Eysendyck.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cufaol
    #2 What is meant by losing all desire is something like this : Do not allow your desires to dictate your life. Ultimately, when you let go of every desire, you will feel much more like a free person. True freedom is freedom of the heart. What you did is confuse desire with passion and love. There's no problem with any of those.
    lol this is where I seem to see it as confusing - isn't wanting to lose desire a desire in an of itself?

    But actually I was told by a Buddhist Zen does not follow conventional logic and in fact part of Zen is escape from conventional logic. For example "not thinking" without "thinking about not thinking" is possible with training, so I guess it's a question that must be answered by intuition rather than logic.
    e-budo is anti-budo

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Clark
    My understanding is that there's nothing wrong with desire... it's the attachment to getting or not getting what we desire that creates suffering (often resulting in feeling either less than or better than others which kills compassion). Trying to do away with desire or ego, etc. is useless, it's the way we are. Attachment is different though, and certainly, suffering is a choice.

    Difficult to talk about, for sure.

    Best regards,
    This may be a "stupid question" but I believe in questions, so is it possible to be "attached" to Zen and to meditation?

    What if someone tries to prevent meditation, is it then possible to be attached to it? I know masters can meditate under any conditions, but what about the "average" follower?
    e-budo is anti-budo

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowriderx52
    lol this is where I seem to see it as confusing - isn't wanting to lose desire a desire in an of itself?
    Well, I imagine there are some subtle nuances that don't make the translation.

    But it's a process. You don't start off right off the bat without desiring anything. First you give up ambition and materialism. Then you work to keep your desires from affecting your actions. Eventually that becomes habit and you just end up living in the moment. What happened just before doesn't matter. What happens next doesn't matter.
    Josh Reyer

    Swa sceal man don, þonne he æt guðe gengan þenceð longsumne lof, na ymb his lif cearað. - The Beowulf Poet

  11. #26
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    Very insightful link, thank you for providing this.
    e-budo is anti-budo

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Reyer
    Well, I imagine there are some subtle nuances that don't make the translation.

    But it's a process. You don't start off right off the bat without desiring anything. First you give up ambition and materialism. Then you work to keep your desires from affecting your actions. Eventually that becomes habit and you just end up living in the moment. What happened just before doesn't matter. What happens next doesn't matter.
    Thank you for the insight.

    But sometimes I feel like ambition gives me strength to move even in hard times. What should be my new source of spirit?
    e-budo is anti-budo

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowriderx52
    Thank you for the insight.

    But sometimes I feel like ambition gives me strength to move even in hard times. What should be my new source of spirit?
    "Þæs ofereode, þisses swá mæg."

    Or in the modern vernacular, "This, too, shall pass."
    Josh Reyer

    Swa sceal man don, þonne he æt guðe gengan þenceð longsumne lof, na ymb his lif cearað. - The Beowulf Poet

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowriderx52
    This may be a "stupid question" but I believe in questions, so is it possible to be "attached" to Zen and to meditation?
    Of course; I suspect it's something we all go through at some point, in some lifetime...

    "Think about the past – it’s already gone
    Think about the present – it’s the same
    Time keeps moving, leaving no trace
    Who is foolish? Who is smart?
    Just pass the days letting things take their course
    And abiding in your own true self…"

    Ryokan – the Great Fool

    Easy to say, hard to do.
    Chuck Clark
    Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
    http://www.jiyushinkai.org

  15. #30
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    I see, thank you all for the response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Reyer
    "Þæs ofereode, þisses swá mæg."

    Or in the modern vernacular, "This, too, shall pass."
    Where is this quote from and do you study old European/English/British works? I've been fascinated by ancient Britains since I know little of them compared to ancients of other places so it's interesting to hear about them.
    e-budo is anti-budo

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