Video Analysis - Man vs Beast

[gmanry]

When I was around 15 I was staying at RAF Benson. We took a tour of the RAF Police dog training unit. Being Cadets, the RAF guys rapidly suited us up in the "Carpet Suits" and led us into a training area.

Yeah, trained dogs are scary. However, there are people who do train to kill police/military dogs. These are typically not nice people.

One thing I notice is that people naturally fall back away from the dog. When it leaps you can step in or to the side and change the dogs attack angle. This would, again, be premised on NOT going into blind panic. It would take a very strong will to win, and I am not saying this is easy at all. Think of it as best chance type stuff not sure thing type stuff.

If you have only encountered a violent dog once, the impression you have is quite natural. They are very strong, fast, and sharp.

[Texasmic]

Here's a video of Man vs Chimp nature. Analyze this vids and tell us how would you do things differently with all your training ?

http://www3.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5vE...nimal%20attack

303 Enfield (from the boat!)

[sneo]

Couldn't believe the speed and focus of the dog attack. Escape and evasion manual stated that you'd be better off clubbing an attack dog with your rifle than trying to shoot it; now I know why.

As to choking out a dog or holding it on its back, I used to have a 35kg(77lb) English bull terrier and it was just about impossible to restrain him when he was in rush about madly mode. Would fight strangles with every thing he had, ditto for trying to hold him on his back. Eventhough he never tried to bite me(just a big game for him), I was scratched and gouged on all occasions-watch out for the dew claws.

However, a modified kesa-gatame worked sometimes, if he had his collar on but I don't know if this would apply to an angry animal intent on biting you.

Also an observation on biting. The dog(my dog, anyway) didn't just bite, he'd chomp on hard and work the bite in by shaking his head and body convulsively, occasionally lunging in for another target. I imagine an attack like that would break your balance quite badly and you shouldn't depend on whacking the dog with the free arm while it's preoccupied with taking the other one off.

soon neo

[gmanry]

Oh, it wouldn't be a walk in the park. Small compact dogs are harder to hold, I would estimate, than larger lankier dogs.

Your best bet is to be armed with a knife. Pit bulls have been known to shrug off baseball bats, bullets, and other blunt attacks, but nobody can shrug off no blood left in their body. You will get messed up, but you may survive.

A single dog is probably survivable, but a pack...forget it, you are toast. I have read of many people surviving a single dog mauling, but I can't recall any survivals when it was multiple dogs.

Again, these are not guarantees, just higher probability maneuvers to consider.

If you did have a pistol, you would be wise to wait for the dog to close and just fire when it latched on to you, you could then put the bore right on the dog. You will get bit though, that is just a fact.

[gmanry]

Prince,

Well, I think the conclusion here is that karate specifically is not going to do a whole lot in response to a dog. However, your overall toughness from good training will probably play a factor.

The truth is you better be armed with a pistol or a knife if you want to survive a dog attack. If not, RNC is a possibility.

I will say that in messing around with various dogs if you push into their mouths it is harder for them to close down, not impossible, but harder. Of course, this would go against every single instinct you have when being bitten by a dog. I remember reading somewhere that you can try to reach down their throats and grab the base of their tongues, same instinct problem with that too.

I have no idea about chimpanzees. I would opt for the pistol or knife again.

[Prince Loeffler]

Prince,

Well, I think the conclusion here is that karate specifically is not going to do a whole lot in response to a dog. However, your overall toughness from good training will probably play a factor.

The truth is you better be armed with a pistol or a knife if you want to survive a dog attack. If not, RNC is a possibility.

I will say that in messing around with various dogs if you push into their mouths it is harder for them to close down, not impossible, but harder. Of course, this would go against every single instinct you have when being bitten by a dog. I remember reading somewhere that you can try to reach down their throats and grab the base of their tongues, same instinct problem with that too.

I have no idea about chimpanzees. I would opt for the pistol or knife again.

Thanks Glen, The video makes a great study for scenarios. More likely the only way to survive perhaps is by evasive means as opposed to tackling, punching, kicking or striking.

Now let me go and so that I can entice my Mom's annoying chichuahua to attack me.

[Mark Murray]

I've been told about two ... options, I guess you'd call them. I have never had to try them out, so take them as just theories.

1. When a dog goes to bite, shove your fist as far down their throat as possible.

2. If the dog latches onto your forearm, then close quickly, place your other forearm behind their neck and roll both arms to snap the dog's neck.

I've never heard of anyone using these examples either.

I did have two medium sized dogs come at me once. One was a shephard, or shephard mix and the other was a mutt. They got to about twenty yards away and I growled at them. Yeah, you can laugh now. But, it wasn't just a growl. It was gutteral. They stopped immediately and stood there for a few seconds before turning around and leaving. No, not running away leaving, just sort of meandering back the way they came with an occasional glance back at me. Don't know what they thought, but at least I didn't have to deal with an attack.

Mark

[gmanry]

I have used a growl on a dog before too, and it did cause it to stop. I even bared my teeth. Of course, it was probably thinking WTF?!! rather than "looke at that scary human." However, it stopped barking and advancing.

Animal psychology is useful.

Prince, evasion is always the best option. I just always assume that the most obvious things have failed.

[Moenstah]

It might have been imagination, but the chimps in the movie seemed to hesitate when their victims were standing (or getting) back on their feet. Apparently, the size of standing humans is an intimidating factor. They should never have lowered themselves to the size of chimps by sitting amongst them.

Some basic knowledge of animal psychology is indeed useful. Assuming a threatening posture in a situation where the animal can't escape or back off wouldn't be the best idea

[Prince Loeffler]

It might have been imagination, but the chimps in the movie seemed to hesitate when their victims were standing (or getting) back on their feet. Apparently, the size of standing humans is an intimidating factor. They should never have lowered themselves to the size of chimps by sitting amongst them.

Some basic knowledge of animal psychology is indeed useful. Assuming a threatening posture in a situation where the animal can't escape or back off wouldn't be the best idea

How would you defend yourself ? Surely, you're not gonna ask the gorilla to lay down on the couch and talk about his childhood and his relationship to his mother..

[Moenstah]

I will pay homage to the maxim 'make love, not war', and immediately start sexually abusing the monkey in every way imaginable. Including those deemed impossible.

To be honest: I don't know for sure. If I would be carrying a knife and I would manage to get to it, I'd use it. Otherwise: I'd make as much use of my knees, elbows and/or try getting my hands to its larynx, ears and eyes. Either way: I'd most probably would go berserk (knowing myself).

[Jay Vail]

Dogs being on their back will not stop them from fighting, but you being belly to back with them and their legs up really does confuse them and make them very hesitant/docile.

I have tried this with 3 or four dogs of different breeds. Can't say what a wolf would do, but Rotweilers, labradors, and a big lab mutt all reacted the same.

I would like to also point out that a choke works better on long necked dogs, rotzies may not be as susceptible nor pitbulls. German shephards and all the hunting dogs and houds would be easier to apply an RNC to.

Also, I remember somebody telling me that a good grip on the larynx can allow you to choke them out, but that puts me too close to the business end of the dog for comfort.

Lastly, this is not a guarantee, and if the dog is angry, you will probably get bit. Think of it as you would a knife encounter. You will get hurt.

If you've been around dogs, you've probably had one hump your leg at one time or other. We think of this as doggie sex, but it's not. It's dominance behavior. The humper is showing the humpee that he is literally the top dog. When you straddle the dog like you have described, he probably interprets it as this dominance behavior and he's just submitting like a good doggie.

[Prince Loeffler]

If you've been around dogs, you've probably had one hump your leg at one time or other. We think of this as doggie sex, but it's not. It's dominance behavior. The humper is showing the humpee that he is literally the top dog. When you straddle the dog like you have described, he probably interprets it as this dominance behavior and he's just submitting like a good doggie.

Jay,

This is interesting ! Next time my Mom's Chihuahua who I suspect was way too amorous tries this on me again. I am gonna fight back I wonder what type of choke I should apply here..

[Katsu!]

Hi All,

I friend of the family was a border guard as a soldier and handled these dogs well. One night he was attacked by a pack of wild dogs and when the first jumped him and attached itself to his forearm. Instead of pulling away he pushed his forearm into the mouth and with his left arm snapped the dogs neck by pulling in from behind. The other dogs just ran away.

True story.


Marko Miletic

[Prince Loeffler]

Here's another video of Beast vs Beast. One can see that Kicks, Punches, Chokes will not have any effects on these two at all.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=N7vvkloC-Ac