Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 41

Thread: An interesting idea: a Sword Arts Wiki

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Kaneohe, Hawaii, USA
    Posts
    883
    Likes (received)
    35
    Blog Entries
    1

    Exclamation An interesting idea: a Sword Arts Wiki

    It strikes me (no pun intended) that e-Budo has all the makings of a really comprehensive martial arts wiki. For those of you not familiar with wikis, please browse to http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wiki_Sc...o_start_a_Wiki

    Creating a Sword Arts Wiki would accomplish a lot of good things: (1) really basic questions could be pointed to a beginner's section, (2) more advanced questions & concepts could be discussed & then incorporated in an easily-browsed & -organized page, (3) those of us who are interested in researching new ideas & solutions can quickly & easily find references, & (4) any qualified person can add a page (well, so can unqualified people, but that's what moderators are for, right ?).

    It's not that we can't search all the e-Budo forums right now, but there's no easy way to follow a single thread & compile ideas. I've contributed about a dozen pages to the Wikipedia, & find that it offers a really new way to collaborate & communicate. I've been an engineer for nearly four decades, & appreciate well-organized "encyclopedias" that help me target my efforts.

    Comments? Suggestions? Someone who wants to take this on?
    Ken Goldstein
    --------------------------------
    Judo Kodansha/MJER Iaido Kodansha/Jodo Oku-iri
    Fencing Master/NRA Instructor

    "A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it'll annoy enough people to be worth the effort."

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    McKinney, TX
    Posts
    129
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    I like this idea, I am running my own wiki myself for all my family ideas. Its quite easy, all what it needs is a server and some of the wiki distros. I tried plone and mediawiki, both work great. But don't think that my bandwith of my home ISP connection could take on another wiki ;-). However, there are some free services such as Wikia.
    Norbert Funke
    日本人では無い
    http://saw.wikia.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    In A Van Down By The River...
    Posts
    102
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default Good idea.

    It sounds solid enough. For those of us who just manage to muddle through getting on here and posting, how could we best help out?
    _____________________________________________

    Chris Brown

    All great things are simple, and many can be expressed in single words: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope.

    --Sir Winston Churchill

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    27
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default Just expand the Wikipedia

    While I think the idea is great and that there certainly is enough material to create a specific sword arts wiki or an E-Budo wiki I think the related resources afforded by the wikipedia are superior.

    It is rather easy to create a little separate galaxy of interrelated information on the wikipedia and as soon as you use something from related fields such as history, medicine, technology you can just link to an article about that by adding brackets.

    And looking at the wikipedia articles on budo in general and koryu in particular there is much that could be enhanced by the crowd here at E-Budo (take kata for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kata).

    We should also not forget the greater service to the world outside budo that we would be performing by expanding a more general resource like the wikipedia with our specialized knowlege. The problems with getting a dedicated server and maintaining software and hardware would dissapear as an extra bonus.

    /M
    Last edited by Michael-H; 11th May 2006 at 13:11. Reason: typofixing
    Michael Hultström

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Blue Ridge, Texas
    Posts
    2,000
    Likes (received)
    125

    Default

    Sorry to be the (seemingly) lone voice of dissent here, but I think it's a lousy idea. As I was informed many years ago, knowledge is worth what you pay for it. Competency in the sword arts is hard to come by, and takes many years of hard practice to attain. The background and information that goes with it comes as part of those years of effort. Years ago I asked questions of my senei that I was told to forget about since I wouldn't understand. Later, the answers to many of those questions have come to me through practice, and my sensei was correct at the time. I wouldn't have understood and he was right to not give me the answers I sought. If I had some of the answers that I was seeking at the time, I surely would have missed gaining true knowledge through preconceptions and misconceptions.

    While technological knowledge is a good thing to have readily available, the koryu sword arts are not technological in nature. Answers to everything shouldn't be easily available. These are traditional arts that we are studying. I prefer to study them in the traditional way. Besides which, the more readily available information there is, the more imitation instructors you create because they will be able to read all the information and so delude themselves (and others) into thinking that they know what they're doing.

    I give the idea a thumbs down!
    Paul Smith
    "Always keep the sharp side and the pointy end between you and your opponent"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    14
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Mr. Smith has some valid points, but I think a wiki could be a good thing.
    I mean, it's not like we're going to reveal ryu secrets or something in it, but we could write helpful information like what weapons are taught in certain ryu, stuff like that.
    Perhaps biographies on old masters like Miyamoto Musashi and such as well.
    A lot of information you find on the net is tainted by anime and McDojos, so it would be good to have a bastion of true knowledge regarding such things.
    Bjørne Hoff

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    McKinney, TX
    Posts
    129
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjørne Hoff
    Mr. Smith has some valid points, but I think a wiki could be a good thing.
    I mean, it's not like we're going to reveal ryu secrets or something in it, but we could write helpful information like what weapons are taught in certain ryu, stuff like that.
    Thats my opinion too. The wiki (or put other technology here) can not replace the practice and other insights you gain from your sensei. But I would like to have a more organized repository of knowledge that is maintained by real experts. I have seen a lot of crap out there on the internet. It would be nice if the knowledge is more organized.

    To Paul: I see your point, have not thought about it. Easily available knowledge makes it easier for instructor wannabies to open McDojos. Don't know yet how that could be prevented. But those bozos would probably open up a Dojo anyway.
    Norbert Funke
    日本人では無い
    http://saw.wikia.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Kaneohe, Hawaii, USA
    Posts
    883
    Likes (received)
    35
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Norbert, you sound like the person with the most wiki experience so far. Could you please look into how we can set up a Sword Arts Wiki (hereafter known as SAW) as a free service? We'll have to be sure to keep our data backed up in case the ISP goes belly-up, but that's the only major potential glitch I can see.

    I'll be happy to flow-chart the general SAW layout, & hope the long-timers on the forum will PM me with their ideas, as I have no desire to reinvent the wheel. I'll be using Visio for those who would like a copy as SAW evolves. Oh, & Michael, I see no reason not to provide a link from Wikipedia to connect with our center of excellence. It's possible right now to simply cut-&-paste the existing e-Budo knowledge into Wikipedia, of course, but I think that we as a group are far more likely to format our own wiki so that it makes as much sense as possible.

    Paul, I'm a bit surprised that you don't think that a wiki is appropriate for koryu sword arts. Yes, I get 99% of my information from Maeda-Sensei, but if I as sempai am trying to bring more people into our dojo (which I am), I think that a reliable source of iaido information is absolutely essential. I have created a number of handouts for potential new members of our dojo - per Maeda-Sensei's specific request - which has helped grow our membership by nearly 20 students. This would have been a lot easier with a sword arts-specific wiki. And why shouldn't other dojos share their ideas & information via SAW? Feel free to PM me if you think that's needed.

    Hyaku, as moderator, do you have any ideas, insights, &/or potential problems to contribute?
    Ken Goldstein
    --------------------------------
    Judo Kodansha/MJER Iaido Kodansha/Jodo Oku-iri
    Fencing Master/NRA Instructor

    "A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it'll annoy enough people to be worth the effort."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Denton, Tx
    Posts
    1,237
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    Ken, I've been hanging around in these forums for a little while. I strongly suggest that before you spend any money or invest a significant amount of time in the setup of your wiki, you make sure there are willing contributors available. It would be a shame to get it all setup only to find that there isn't a large pool of volunteers just waiting to donate their time and knowledge into the project. I think you will find Paul's opinion on the subject to be more widespread than you might think.
    Charles Mahan

    Iaido - Breaking down bad habits,
    and building new ones.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    737
    Likes (received)
    2

    Default

    Before I had people bugging me since I became better known in the Seattle area and aiki world, I would have agreed with the idea.

    Now, even though I'm just a fluffy aiki bunny, I tend to have an attitude more akin to some of the "old school" budoka. That is:
    I don't care what you read on the internet.
    I don't care what you think you know.
    I don't care what else you have trained in or with who you have trained, except to have a credible introduction and recommendation from someone I respect.
    I don't care if you can twirl a katana and do a reverse noto like in Rurouni Kenshin.
    I don't care if you think Uyeshiba was a perfect human being.

    What I do care about is:
    You come to class, you train, you get along with other people in the dojo.
    You keep doing those things without whining, begrudging others any progress they make and wondering why you don't keep up when you waste time trying to show off what you learned somewhere else.
    AND most importantly, you don't hesitiate to buy a round when we hit the pub after class.

    Most of the people who contact me don't cut the mustard for what I'm seeking in students.

    Now, if none of the thing I mentioned above matter, a wiki is a great idea. Broadcasts stuff out there, may help a few people, spreads the word and maybe gets more people in the dojo to train. Out of those who do come in, maybe 10-20% will be worth the air they breath and the stink they create sweating during training. And those probably would have come in looking anyway.

    So, Paul's attitude is pretty common in my view with people I know in sword arts as well. A few of my students who train in sword arts share my view, maybe not quite as harsh as I come across, but still reclusive.

    But, good luck with the idea.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan
    Posts
    1,329
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Hmm..
    Koryu.com seems to fill some of what you want anyway.. The lists of what is practised by schools to some degree at least.. Anything more is entirely individual.. I don't see the point in doing it. Besides, with what little is out there already people take the information and lie to their students about what they can do.. Why would we need to provide another route for that to happen?
    Sorry, but I agree with Paul and Neil here..
    Good luck...
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    72
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Are "sword arts" really so simple as to be neatly explicable, or discussed comprehensively? Who will explain the basics of swordsmanship? Do we start with seiza nobu iai, kumitachi, kendo, shiai? An easy answer is to pick specific schools & organizations [perhaps categorizing them under kendo, battojutsu, iaido, etc] and provide details about them - but there are plenty of sources for this already. Lumping all this info on to one website will make things easier, but that website will never, I think, be able to claim to be a definitive source. How many ryu, in obscure parts of Japan, remain unlisted out of choice or circumstance? If sogo bujutsu are listed, is it logical to exclude non-sword parts of the curricululm? Can we separate aikiken from the study of aikido as a whole?

    As nice as it is to have reliable information on hand when searching around for legitimate instruction, it does no service to our wits to be coddled. The right information is out there, in one way or another, and can be found by anyone who is intelligent and perseverant enough. Another thing the wiki could do is list, synopsize and discuss these myriad resources. I wager that'll lead to more than a little conflict among contributors. Who decides how to interpret the book of five elements? List them all (I use 'all' loosely) - and readers will only be further confused. It's hard enough buying the book, finding a teacher, and training with a bokken in hand (not necessarily in that order).

    Finally, although there are many practitioners around with plenty of experience, wisdom, knowledge, and generosity, there are an equal number who want sod-all to do with information technology beyond word of mouth and spare words brushed in ink. Yet it can be guaranteed that the average web-viewer will be automatically convinced that SAW is _the_ source... and as wonderfully informative, lively and inclusive as it may someday become, it will never be that. Maybe I am misinformed, but my understanding is that there is already a straightforward way to learn about sword arts. I'll look into it...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Denton, Tx
    Posts
    1,237
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    That pretty much sums up Wikipedia in my experience. Not too bad, but not that great.

    Of course in Wiki's defence, it's true of all encyclopedias.
    Charles Mahan

    Iaido - Breaking down bad habits,
    and building new ones.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    3,324
    Likes (received)
    48

    Default

    There are two other possibilities.

    One is to publish the information in peer-reviewed books and articles. Then, you're guaranteed nobody will ever read it.

    Online, put the material into grammatically reasonable peer-reviewed articles that are least 2,500 words in length. Include footnotes and bibliography, but don't include many pictures.

    Ancient scrolls get more readers than do articles published in these formats.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,147
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Well...this will be a Sword-arts only wiki right? It will be open for everyone......everyone with a different opinion on how things should be done. Expect conflict at some point.

    Imagine the mayhem if it would become a Budo-wiki instead and imagine, (if you dare), the Ninjitsu & Bujinkan section of a Budo-wiki.."The horror!" Anyways, I'm all for the sword-wiki, although I agree in part what Neil Yamamoto said. But if we can balance it I see no reason this shouldnt work. Just my 2 cents.
    Fredrik Hall
    "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." /Confucius

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •