The great jiujitsu vs. boxing debate: 1901 - 1914

[Tony Wolf]

The Bartitsu Society continues to unearth some long-forgotten lore regarding the introduction of the Japanese martial arts to Europe in the early 1900s.

One item of note is the debate that raged in newspaper columns and in the pages of popular magazines such as "Health and Strength" regarding the relative merits of Jiujitsu and the established "manly British art" of boxing. While there seems to have been a general agreement that jiujitsu offered a nice range of tricks that would supplement the boxer's arsenal in actual self defence, the question of whether a jiujitsuka would beat a boxer in a regulated contest provoked strong disagreement from various quarters.

In 1903, by which time the debate seems to have been well-established, W.H. Hall wrote:

"Hitherto there has been some doubt expressed as to the result of a
boxing v jujitsu (sic) contest. It seems that quite a number of people
labour under the erroneous idea that jujitsu is more effective than
boxing as a means of self defence. This notion however, is quite
unfounded, as there has never been an instance on record where jujitsu
has gained a victory. In fact, it is very doubtful if such a contest
ever took place anywhere outside the Japanese Empire. And perhaps
readers may be surprised to hear that dozens of these contests
annually take place. Though they do not happen to be specially
arranged matches, they serve as a very fair criterion to assay the
result of similar contests between more dexterous opponents of each
respective science.

"The contests to which I refer usually take place in the streets of
Hakodate (the rendezvous port of the cosmopolitan ailing fleet),
consequently many fights take place between the sailors who meet on
shore, and who comprise the boxing fraternity; while the Japanese
police represent the jujitsu exponents. Needless to say, it is the
duty of the police to stop these unseemly fracas, which block the
public streets, and in this way the difference of opinion arises as to
the right of interference, which in its turn generally results in a melee.

"Before showing the result of an encounter between police, sailor or
sailors, as the case may be, I should like to point out that the whole
police force are instructed in fencing and jujitsu by some of the most
competent instructors in the island. But where the sailors learn their
boxing is a mystery, and I very much doubt if they have anything like
the instructional advantages of their op-ponents. "On one occasion,
after two American sailors had finished fighting, a policeman
requested the victor (who had left his antagonist in a very bad state)
to accompany him to the station. Of course the Yankee `guessed' he was
`not going that way', whereupon the police-man tried to arrest him.
After giving the plucky little Jap a couple of hard blows, which made
him leave go, he turned and would have gone away, but again the
policeman attempted to close with the Yankee, which only ended in the
policeman being knocked down. By this time assistance was at hand,
three policemen hurried up and made a combined attack upon the
resolute seaman. Even then it was not without the greatest difficulty
that the three (the first had been rendered hors de combat) escorted
him to the station. This is only one of many similar cases. With one
exception, I have never seen an arrest effected by less than two
policemen to one sailor.

"After witnessing a few similar scenes, what conclusion is one forced
to arrive at, other than that no jujitsu professor could stand against
Jim Jeffries, Tom Sharkey, or any other hard-hitting boxer who took
care not to allow any close grappling?"

Yukio Tani, William Garrud and police Sergeant G.H. Wheeldon all entered the fray, and their public correspondence reads like an Edwardian version of many "style vs. style" message board arguments. Ultimately, Sergeant Wheeldon, who had argued against jiujitsu, seems to have converted to the Japanese art, while William Garrud went on to develop a series of jiujitsu defences against boxing punches, duly featured in his book "the Complete Jujitsuan". Many years later, E.W. Barton-Wright reported that he had tried to coach Tani in boxing as well, but that the jiujitsuka had "little aptitude for the sport".

As far as I know, although Tani and fellow Bartitsu Club instructor Sadakazu "Raku" Uyenishi proved their art against numerous challengers in the professional wrestling arena, they never actually went to conclusions against a boxer. The closest thing to a jiujitsu vs. boxing event in Europe during the first decades of the 1900s appears to have been the famous and heavily-hyped match between wrestler-turned-jiujitsuka Ernest Regnier, who fought under the Japanized nom du guerre of "Re-Nie", and savateur George Dubois.

This match took place in Paris in 1905 and seems to have been treated almost as a formal affair of honour by both parties. It attracted huge interest from the press and public, but was over almost before it began. Dubois attacked first with a low kick, Regnier evaded and closed, they went to the ground, and Dubois was caught in an extended armlock that forced his surrender. Subsequently, Regnier found himself at the centre of a brief but intense jiujitsu craze which lasted until he over-estamated his own ability and was comprehensively defeated by Ivan Podoubny, a huge Russian wrestler who specialized in the Greco-Roman style.

I would be very interested to hear any other stories of encounters between jiujitsuka and boxers or savateurs that took place during the early 1900s.

[tddeangelo]

Have you read about Seishiro Okazaki and KO Morris in Hawaii in the 1920's?

[Tony Wolf]

Just this - http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1075

But there's some more detail at http://www.ajjf.org/dojos/trivalley/mhncajje_1of2.jpg and http://www.ajjf.org/dojos/trivalley/mhncajje_2of2.jpg

Also found a 1913 newspaper article on a jiujitsu vs. boxing tournament - http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_JapanTimes_1199.htm

[Tony Wolf]

Some more from Graham Noble (albeit a reference to judo as well as jiujitsu):

"Choki Motobu in Japan

Motobu was born in Shuri, the old capital of Okinawa, in 1871. He had considerable local fame in Okinawa as a fighter-strongman but it was only after he moved to Osaka in 1921 that he became known in Japanese martial art circles.

What brought Motobu to the attention of the Japanese was his victory over a western boxer in a kind of all-comers challenge match. In the earlier part of this century such bouts were occasionally held in Japan pitting western boxers against judo or jujutsu men, (karate was unknown in Japan around this time). These were not "official" bouts for any sort of legitimate title, but something more like sideshow attractions. The results of such bouts have even been recorded in a few cases. Boxing historians for example are fond of pointing out that, back in 1928 in Yokohama, top bantamweight Packy O'Gatty KO'd a Japanese jujutsu man named Shimakado in 14 seconds. That 14 seconds included the full count, by the way. E. J. Harrison also mentioned in passing a couple of boxing vs. judo shows in his book, The Fighting Spirit of Japan, first published in 1913. Few of the fighters in these events were champions in their sports, but the shows did arouse interest in a certain section of the populace.

Anyway, this was the background to Motobu's victory which so delighted the people back in Okinawa when they heard about it. Soon after Motobu settled in Japan he went to watch a boxing vs. judo show in Kyoto. A boxer taking part beat several judomen rather easily and then issued an open challenge. Moreover, the challenge was issued in a boastful and derogatory way. Choki Motobu, who was sitting in the audience stepped up onto the stage (or ring) and in the ensuing battle he knocked the boxer out-probably with a punch, or series of punches, to the head. That is about as much as we can say about it since no contemporary reports of the fight exist."

[Joseph Svinth]

Some results that were shamelessly cribbed from Mark Hewitt's "Catch Wrestling" (2005). (PS. Buy a copy, it's good.)

* Sam McVey, boxer, beat Tano Matsuda, judoka, Dec. 31, 1908, Paris
* Taro Miyake, judoka, beat Ben de Mello, boxer, Dec. 30, 1916, Honolulu
* Kayo Morris, boxer, beat S. Takahashi, judoka, Apr. 8, 1922, Honolulu
* S. Takahashi, judoka, beat Kayo Morris, boxer, May 6, 1922, Honolulu
* Seishiro Okazaki, DZR, beat Kayo Morris, boxer, May 19, 1922, Hilo
* Luis Galtieri, boxer, beat Luis Taki, judoka, July 15, 1922, Buenos Aires (NOTE: Taki died of injuries.)
* S. Takahashi, judoka, beat Kid Carpenterio, boxer, May 12, 1923, Honolulu
* Seishiro Okazaki, DZR, beat John "Kid" Morris, boxer, Dec. 12, 1925
* Yasuji Fujita, judoka, beat Jack Duarte, boxer, July 11, 1930, Phoenix

Also see my chapter on boxing in Imperial Japan in "Martial Arts in the Modern World" (2003).

Harvey ("Heinie") Miller remembered a contest that took place in Manila in late 1908 or early 1909 as follows:

"The bout was to be two falls or knockdowns out of three. [The Japanese] was to wear a sort of jiu-jitsu shirt while the American was to wear gloves. [The Japanese] was not allowed to hit but all jiu-jitsu holds were permitted. The American was not allowed to wrestle or hold but all clean blows were permitted." (Miller, "Now You Tell One!", THE RING, December 1922, p 5).

During these contests, sometimes the boxer won. For example, in the contest described by Miller, the first fall went to the Japanese, via an arm throw. The second fall went to the American, who landed a solid right uppercut to the head just as the Japanese stepped in. The Japanese then refused to go out for the final point. His excuse was "that he did not expect to get hit, being under the impression that the gloves were only used as a handicap for the difference in weight" (Miller, 1922: 5).

Young Togo Koriyama was a jujutsuka who also boxed professionally. Koriyama "short, squat, barrel-shaped with a round, closely cropped bullet head and possessed of extraordinary strength. Of science he knows little or nothing, but his capacity to wade in, take all that comes his way and cripple an opponent in the clinches cannot be overestimated" (Seattle Times, March 10, 1912: 28). He boxed in Fort Smith (Arkansas) and California, and later helped pioneer American boxing in Kobe. His business partners in Japan included a relative of Jigoro Kano.

[Tony Wolf]

Joe,

regarding the "Merikan" mixed boxing/JJ contests in Japan and similar elsewhere, do you know whether the boxers were ever (or typically) required to wear gi jackets? Also, any idea about the show vs. shoot ratio in these bouts?
--------------------------------
Professional Boxing

In June 1887, Shokichi Hamada staged a boxing exhibition between two Westerners in Tokyo, and from the 1890s until the 1920s, a kind of boxing versus jujutsu known as "Merikan" [American] was seen across the Pacific Rim. In 1922, a former US naval boxer named Harvey "Heinie" Miller described a typical "Merikan" bout staged in Manila circa 1909. [EN10]
The bout was to be two falls or knockdowns out of three. The Jap was to wear a sort of jiu-jitsu shirt while the American was to wear gloves. The Jap was not allowed to hit but all jiu-jitsu holds were permitted. The American was not allowed to wrestle or hold but all clean blows were permitted.

The gong rang. Quicker’n you can say ‘Sap,’ the Jap grabbed ye scribe by the right arm, twisted and pitched us on our ear in a neutral corner some fifteen feet away. One fall for the Jap. After we got the resin well out of our ear we arose only to find the little brown brother right on top of us again. But this time we beat him to it with a sweet right hand, inside and up. The little rascal only weighed 98 pounds while we displaced some 124 at that time. So we take no credit for the fact that the gent from [Tokyo] folded his tent like an Arab and silently stole out of the ring. He forfeited the third trip to the canvas, explaining that he did not expect to get hit, being under the impression that the gloves were only used as a handicap for the difference in weight.
Of course, not every boxer was the US Navy’s Pacific Fleet featherweight champion and it wasn’t hard for interested wrestlers to learn defenses against most punches. As a result, it wasn’t long before judo champions started winning most of these mixed matches. [EN11] That wasn’t the result that Western audiences wanted, and so, to maximize profits, promoters simply began arranging the outcomes of matches in advance. [EN12]