Likes Likes:  0
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Passai Kata Applications

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kaneohe, HI
    Posts
    32
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default Passai Kata Applications

    I would like to start a thread about the applications for Passai kata. I know there are several versions so as long as people let other know which they practice and what moves they are talking about, information should come across. I practice the shotokan/Tang Soo Do version of Passai/Bassai - btw.

    Here are a few guidelines that may aid the discussion...

    1. What version of passai are you studying?
    2. What move are you describing?
    3. Any pictures or videos of the kata you are practicing or people doing applications would be helpful.

    Thanks!!!

    upnorthkyosa
    "Anything easy, usually isn't worth doing."

    Regards



    John M. Kedrowski

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kaneohe, HI
    Posts
    32
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    This video is a must see for everyone who is trying to understand the movements of Bassai Dai, IMHO.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&q=Bassai+Kata

    The attacker and defender do a great job breaking the kata down and this version is very close to the version we practice in our dojang.
    "Anything easy, usually isn't worth doing."

    Regards



    John M. Kedrowski

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Sierra Foothills, CA
    Posts
    357
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Just as a side note (because this has been discussed before),
    the Passai that you are describing and as shown in the video
    is Shotokan's Bassai dai which is Kobayashi's Passai sho
    (AKA Itosu Passai).

    Peace
    Ray Baldonade
    Chibana-ha Shorin-ryu

    "Love many, trust few and do wrong to none". Chan Yau-man

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    BC, Canada
    Posts
    326
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default Differences

    These guys have great athleticism and have obviously worked very hard to try and fit the moves in the kata into something that makes sense for them.

    It's not what I have learned about Passai, but they are doing Japanese karate, which is not what I train. The differences I noticed started with the hand movements and the body position, before the first step of the first move in the kata and then continued from that point on. Too many differences to describe in a post unfortunately.

    I have to give it to them for their ingenuity and their intensity. It is clear that they take their karate very seriously.

    Best,
    Tim
    Last edited by Timothy.G.B.; 10th July 2006 at 18:57. Reason: Change title
    Tim Black
    Kokusai Shinjinbukan

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Baird, Texas
    Posts
    155
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    I too think these fellas worked very hard, but I'm afraid that IMO most of the interoperations they have come up with are incorrect. They seem to really be making a stretch on most of this. The bunki I was taught for this kata was very different.

    Please don't take this as an attack. This is just my opion.
    Michael Philippus

    Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Sierra Foothills, CA
    Posts
    357
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Given, they have been trained in a style that utilizes long stances, the bunkai
    would seem to make sense, to them.

    This is fodder for a discussion that is taking place on another forum where
    the general consences is that Japanese schools like Shotokan and Wado
    start with an attacker who starts in a deep stance and attacks with a huge
    Oi or Gyaku tsuki. Way too much telegraphing. Most of the bunkai that I have
    been exposed to in Okinawan karate is done from spitting distance. Like you
    are in an argument with a guy on the street. None of these extended blocks
    and kicks. I have heard it referred to as "fighting in a telephone booth".

    That stuff is fine for demo or beginner purposes I guess. It is what it is.
    What ever floats their boat.

    As for me, I wasn't trained that way. I not saying that I'm any better,
    just seeing things through different eyes.

    Peace
    Ray Baldonade
    Chibana-ha Shorin-ryu

    "Love many, trust few and do wrong to none". Chan Yau-man

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Tokorozawa, Japan
    Posts
    1,275
    Likes (received)
    18

    Default

    I thought it was refreshing to see throws and locks instead of just limiting oneself to striking. Plus, the demonstration of ri-ai - an understanding of the techniques and how they could be most effectively used.
    Andrew Smallacombe

    Aikido Kenshinkai

    JKA Tokorozawa

    Now trotting over a bridge near you!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Baird, Texas
    Posts
    155
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew S
    I thought it was refreshing to see throws and locks instead of just limiting oneself to striking. Plus, the demonstration of ri-ai - an understanding of the techniques and how they could be most effectively used.
    The bunki I was taught had lots of locks and take downs, but they are very different from what I saw in the video, and IMO I don't think that much of what was shown would work in a real situation with a non compliant uki.

    example;

    I can't imagine trying to bend over and grab a cuff of an opponents pant leg.

    Nor do I believe that I could grab someone by the shoulders and force them to the ground.

    IMO technique is only technique if it works on 100% of people.
    Michael Philippus

    Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Tokorozawa, Japan
    Posts
    1,275
    Likes (received)
    18

    Default

    I recognised a lot of what they were doing from my aikido training. Appropriate force applied in the correct manner, especially if the opponent has taken some atemi, makes it quite possible to drop someone.
    Which is not to say I'd do everything they do, nor that theirs is the best application. The best application is the one that works at that time.
    Andrew Smallacombe

    Aikido Kenshinkai

    JKA Tokorozawa

    Now trotting over a bridge near you!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Sierra Foothills, CA
    Posts
    357
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Texasmic
    IMO technique is only technique if it works on 100% of people.
    I am in agreement here only, I would be happy with 80%

    It's like trying to kill someone with a pellet gun.
    Yeah, it can be done if you hit them in the right place at the right time
    at the right distance, but I'd rather have a large caliber weapon to
    make sure.

    Just my opinion...

    Peace
    Ray Baldonade
    Chibana-ha Shorin-ryu

    "Love many, trust few and do wrong to none". Chan Yau-man

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •