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Thread: Over 40, out of shape and stretching

  1. #1
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    Default Over 40, out of shape and stretching

    I have NEVER been very limber. As a kid, I could not touch my toes if I kept my legs perfectly straight for example.

    Now, at nearly 44, I am two weeks into jujutsu. We do stretches at the beginning of class, which I am also doing on off days. I am getting "better" at them, but certain stretches are painful even when I try to be sure not to over do it. There is one in particular that we do where we kneel down, and lean back (everyone else puts their heads on the floor), and I try to go back as far as I can and support myself with my arms - which is hard to do because of the angles (this may be the source of the pain because I can usually limit all of the other stretches to the "stretching point.")

    I imagine over time that this will get better. Has anyone else gone from a place of near inflexibility to relative flexibility? At an age over 40?

    I have noticed that there are certain moves (I don't remember what it is called), but one in particular where the attacker (uki?) is standing over me, and I am supposed to pull one of my legs through his, and then use that to push him back in a kind of scissor move. I can't make my leg move in this way without pulling it with my hand (unless I want to kick him on the way through which would not be funny, and isn't part of the move). I am hoping that over time I'll be able to limber myself enough to do each of the required moves.

    Any thoughts?
    Joseph Dostie

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    I would not worry about over doing it. Be limber, but within reason, and the limits of a position you might "reasonably" find your self in.

    I am not all that partially limber, but within the range of reasonable movement I am very comfortable and don't have to strain.

    I'm 45, I can reach down and touch my toes without grunting. I can rise from a sitting position off the floor without using my hands. I am also a football offical, and I have to run to keep up with 17 year old boys from time to time and I don't pull muscles or Achilles tendons.

    Now that said I can't sit on the floor with my legs straight in front of me and touch my nose to my knees or do a full splits.

    Unless you are planning on trying to kick people in the head I wouldn't worry to much about going beyond what is "reasonable" flexibility.

    Also, as we get older these tendons don't heal as fast as they used to, and if you stretch them out too thin they will become weak and could tear of snap all together. I've seen it end the training of many a 40 something by tearing a tendon.

    Make sure in your training that you are doing low stances and you will get a better stretch and a more permanent stretch than the one you get from just a few minutes before class.
    Michael Philippus

    Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.

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    Myself and some of the other guys at our dojo have recently been working with something called Intu-Flow that was put out by Scott Sonnon. It has four levels that focuss on recovery of range of motion and then move onto increasingly sophisticated/graceful movement. I've been amazed at the improvements I've seen in the last couple of months of using it as have some of the other guys I train with though we're all still working on the first level of mobility recovery still. It is relatively expensive ($100) because it includes a pair of 5 pound clubs used for some of the more advanced levels but I've never been happier with a purchase I've made.

    The URL for Scott Sonnon's material is http://www.rmaxinternational.com/

    Dave Hassenzahl
    David Hassenzahl

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdostie
    I have NEVER been very limber. As a kid, I could not touch my toes if I kept my legs perfectly straight for example.

    ...I am getting "better" at them, but certain stretches are painful even when I try to be sure not to over do it. ...I imagine over time that this will get better. Has anyone else gone from a place of near inflexibility to relative flexibility? At an age over 40?
    You are on the right track by not over-doing it, and by trying -- even at "over 40" to improve. Here are some things that might help:

    DO NOT BOUNCE when stretching. Go slow, and stop when you feel the muscle starting to complain. Then HOLD IT there for at least 10 seconds, relax a bit, then take it to a good stretch again and hold for another 10 seconds.

    Make sure you are warmed up BEFORE you stretch. Many dojo do it backwards, stretching first and then doing calisthenics and waza; but warm muscles are better able to stretch without tearing fibers. I used to go for a short jog before going to class at my old karate dojo.

    Drink LOTS of water. Most modern people live in a constant state of semi-dehydration, and that can have many ill health affects, including lack of flexibility.

    Make sure you are getting adequate -- but not over-dosing -- Vitamin C. Vitamin C is essential for formation of collegen, a component of the connective tissue.

    HTH.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Default Thanks very much.

    I have always, and by that I am including warm-ups at the dojo, done stretches first. It's interesting that this is a backward approach.

    I'll try all of your suggestions, and as you point out, try not to overdo it. Another interesting point made was to do the stretch, rest, then come back. My approach was to get "slightly uncomfortable" (stretching), and then hold it for an extended period - maybe 30-60 seconds. Then abandoned until the next day. Perhaps successive/shorter stretches will bear more fruit.

    Thanks for all your comments.
    Joseph Dostie

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdostie
    ...Another interesting point made was to do the stretch, rest, then come back. My approach was to get "slightly uncomfortable" (stretching), and then hold it for an extended period - maybe 30-60 seconds.
    The advantage to taking a stretch to the point of resistance, then backing off a bit, and then going to resistance again is that if you only go to first resistance and then hold it, the proprioceptors (sensors that tell the nervous system how far a fiber is stretched) will act to prevent damage from over-stretching by signalling pain; but they activate early as a defense mechanism. By backing off a bit and then going again, the propriceptors are "reset" and will allow a deeper stretch.

    If you want to do some research on the finer aspects of this approach, try a Web search on the key words "proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation" and "PNF stretching."

    Also try "scientific stretching for sports."

    Many adults, even senior citizens, are surprised at the amount of flexibility they can gain from proper stretching. The key, of course, is proper stretching.

    Improper stretching can actually decrease flexibility -- and strength -- by replacing healthy muscle tissue with scar tissue.

    HTH.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdostie
    ...do the stretch, rest, then come back....
    I just realized you may have thought I meant to stretch, then take a break, and then come back and stretch again. That's not what I meant.

    When I said "relax a bit" I meant to back off on the stretch by several centimeters, and then reach out again. Hold the stretch for 10 seconds or so, back off slightly for several seconds, then stretch again and hold for at least 10 seconds more.

    Sorry if I wasn't clear the first time.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Default Thanks for the clarification

    I did think you meant take a short break - a few minutes. Thanks for the clarification.
    Joseph Dostie

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    One word: Yoga

    But aside from that, when you stretch, release yourself from your physical discomfort and look stright ahead, past you, focus on your breathing, deep into your lower abdomen, stretch everyday, morning and night and you'll become limber quicker than mcdonalds makes you fat.
    Ben Lightener

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazuki
    ...mcdonalds makes you fat.
    Spoken with hyperbole, I'm sure; but for the record, McDonald's doesn't make anyone fat. It's what some people stuff (over-stuff, more accurately) into their faces at McDonald's that makes them fat.

    I eat lunch at McDonald's, Jack-In-The-Box, or Taco Time (depending on my work schedule) five times a week, and I've gone from 250 pounds to 220 pounds in the last three years, on my way to 200 - 210.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Some very good advice from Brian in this thread, and I also want to second the suggestion of yoga.

    Yoga will do wonders for both your general flexibility and your jujutsu (all that "breathe, centre, relax" stuff y'know). Breathing correctly will allow you to get far more from your stretching programme (and your jujutsu) - yoga will teach you that, as well as a decent selection of asanas (postures) that you can carry on doing it on your own, for free, for the rest of your life.
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

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    Default Yoga

    Thanks again: Interesting that I bought a yoga mat/blocks/strap, and taped some yoga classes from fittv this past week. The idea was to try yoga on off days (when I'm not in the dojo).

    Thanks for the advise.
    Joseph Dostie

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    They've covered it pretty well here-only thing I can add is to take a few minutes to stretch after class, and maybe a few minutes before bed and when you get up-the way most animals in the wild do, and even your house-pets!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens
    Make sure you are getting adequate -- but not over-dosing -- Vitamin C. Vitamin C is essential for formation of collegen, a component of the connective tissue.

    HTH.
    A bit of drift, Brian, but what do you consider to be an overdose of Vitamin C?
    Aaron J. Cuffee


    As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
    - H.L. Mencken

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    I am 43 and have been an athlete since I was a teenager. Age still takes a toll on me I have had to get more educated and I focus on quality not quantity. I have turned to more modern and more technologically advanced methods of training to prepare for my martial arts. I try to cover several areas of development in rotation. Strength I use weights more specifically cybex equipment and some dumbbells. Flexibility I use isometrics with integrated strength around the range of motion of the joints. This promotes the ability to move around the range of motion of the joint with strength which also promotes joint integrity. I like active stretching as well. I use plyometrics to support the explosiveness needed in movements performed in the martial art. I use some common drills for all sports but add some movements that mimic the martial arts movements. I like various sprint type drills for cardio. Then I like simple stair climbing for endurance.
    I have the hardest time with recovery at my age. I can’t just jump right into a routine the way I did in my 20s I have to ramp up slower allowing more time for my body to recover

    I highly reccomend this method of training especialy for people over 35 to prepare for any martial arts training
    http://www.kicksmartfitness.com/bodyguard_dvd.htm

    This is a great resource of free exercises for active warm ups or active stretching.
    http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/...ve_warm-up.htm
    Chris McLean
    Martial Arts student

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    I like to distinquish between stretch and flexibility. My stretch is not good, never was, never will be. I have physical limits based on congenital hip trouble. My splits, plows, etc are terrible. I still have the range of motion I need for all the high kicks in TKD, the sweeps and throws in hapkido. It is a function of relaxation, good range of motion, and a solid base. It might take more training and repitition, but you can't go wrong with good training and repitition. I do note that love handles and a beer belly don't help range of motion. LOL
    joe yang, the three edged sword of truth

    "Not going to be fooled by you again Joe Yang's right you are evil and self-serving." Haiyomi

    "Give my regards to joe yang. very intelligent man." Sojobow

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