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Thread: Nami Ryu demo video

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    Default Nami Ryu demo video

    This was on June 10, 2006.

    A Nami Ryu demonstration of tameshigiri with a little glimpse into old classical Kenjutsu and Iaijutsu of our system of ancient Samurai combative arts. Enjoy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Q1rfLJigQ

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    Interesting video clip. Thank you for posting this, Walter. I've always wondered what the kenjutsu kata of Nami-ryu looked like.


    Regards,
    - Alex Dale

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    You're welcome Alex. Yes, those are just a few of the Nami Ryu Kenjutsu kata and Iaijutsu kata.

    Regards,
    Walter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Blade
    This was on June 10, 2006.

    A Nami Ryu demonstration of tameshigiri with a little glimpse into old classical Kenjutsu and Iaijutsu of our system of ancient Samurai combative arts. Enjoy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Q1rfLJigQ
    Hey Ren Blade,

    Nice!! now I really wish I lived in San Marcos instead of Yosemite.Nooooo
    Koryu of any kind within 300+ miles.
    Mike

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    Mike,

    That is unfortunate there isn't available training near you. There is a seminar happening in October in Encinitas, CA.
    http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthre...424#post416424

    If you can fly out to this one you'll get some good solid training to take home with you to practice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Blade
    This was on June 10, 2006.

    A Nami Ryu demonstration of tameshigiri with a little glimpse into old classical Kenjutsu and Iaijutsu of our system of ancient Samurai combative arts. Enjoy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Q1rfLJigQ
    Nice demo...
    ...but...
    it seems a bit of a stretch to be referring to an art that's, what, 15 years old (?) as ancient. I realize James based his stuff on older arts, but it's goshin budo. Be proud of what your doing, but call it what it is, K?

    (And just to be perfectly clear, I'm not saying it's bad, I'm not dissing James, I'm not discrediting where he learned what he did, and I'm not saying James isn't a bada55. There's a very real precident for VERY modern arts talking up their ancient heritage and trust me man, you don't want to play in that sandbox.)

    /rant
    Christian Moses
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    I confess I wondered about where it sits and the terminology of the first post after popping over to the elegant Dojo of the Four Winds website - being a ZNKR/FIK type I have a differentiation in my head between my ZNKR seitei as gendai arts where the forms are derived from classical forms (and in many cases are still almost identical to the classical form) using classical weaponry but they are not old arts - and my koryu where they are 400+ year old arts.

    (I also confess that until @ 10 years ago I had no such differentiation - it was all Samurai martial arts to me as I happily pounded on peoples heads with a shinai and practiced seitei iai the difference between samurai and aristocracy, high and low samurai, gendai and koryu, budo and bujutsu were not even on my horizon despite reading Draeger and a passing familiarity with Japanese history).
    Aden Steinke
    University of Wollongong Kendo club
    http://www.kendo-wollongong.com/

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    That's interesting. I guess it depends how you look at it. Thank you for sharing your perspectives and observations.
    Last edited by Ren Blade; 11th August 2006 at 18:48.

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    Default Wording, semantics or misleading?

    Hello Mr. Wong,

    I don't think those are just perspectives. I believe that these gentlemen have stated the facts. Mr Williams has artfully created a modern method of swordsmanship and other related arts based on his experiences in training with gentlemen who teach and license others in specific Koryu related arts. Nami ryu however is not a koryu art. I don't think that Mr. Williams would want anyone to believe otherwise. At least that is not the intention I have ever received from him when we have spoken about the style he founded. He appears to be quite proud of the methods he has created and I am sure he would want others to know where these methods came from. He is a true gentleman and I am happy to call him a casual friend.

    I do find your use of the wording here and on other forums, "old classical Kenjutsu and Iaijutsu of our system of ancient Samurai combative arts," quite an interesting way of addressing and skirting the issue at the same time. I notice you don't use the words koryu, much to your credit. Perhaps these terms are used only by yourself to discribe the arts you believe you are studying? Just a guess on my part however.

    FWIW, I truly enjoyed watching the demo as always.

    Respectfully,

    Carl Long

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    I think this is an interesting semantic question, and one that I have hit my head against in the past. Would this discussion be different if the post had said just "classical" instead of "old classical"? What about "classical style"?

    How do you appropriately convey that an art is in a "classical style" when it does not meet the definition of "kobudo" or "koryu"? A lot of these arts have a distinct classical "flavor" and are descended directly from kobudo arts, but there does not seem to be a concise term that easily distinguishes such an art from a modern syncretic kenjutsu put together by a teacher without traditional training.

    Although, to twist my point in knots...I'm curious, how much of Nami-Ryu's kenjutsu is influenced by non-JSA sources like Systema as opposed to the teachings of Yanagi-Ryu and Kuroda Sensei?
    Spencer Burns
    <a href="http://www.yachigusaryu.com/">Yachigusa-Ryu Aiki-Bugei</a>
    San Francisco, CA

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    Quote Originally Posted by spencer burns
    A lot of these arts have a distinct classical "flavor" and are descended directly from kobudo arts, but there does not seem to be a concise term that easily distinguishes such an art from a modern syncretic kenjutsu put together by a teacher without traditional training.
    Why wouldn't gendai fit the bill? How do you seperate folks like Obata-sensei and Williams-sensei from "modern syncretic kenjutsu put together by a teacher without traditional training"? Easy, we usually refer to the "make it up based on the occasional seminar, book, and samurai movie" guys as McDojo Sokey-Dokeys.
    Last edited by Charles Mahan; 11th August 2006 at 20:06.
    Charles Mahan

    Iaido - Breaking down bad habits,
    and building new ones.

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    I've known James since about the late 80's. He and Dave Slocumbe were major eye openers for me in how to deal with big trained guys who liked to fight. I'd dealt with lots of big guys, but only a few big trained guys like James and Dave. It changed how I viewed things for the better.

    I'm not in touch with James a lot, we both have busy lives, but we have gotten along over the years, and we share many common friends and social acquaintances.

    Now, in the whole time I've ever known James and since he took the initiative to develop what he knew into the creation of Nami Ryu, I've never heard him refer to what he does as anything but his creation. Never as a koryu, Japanese classical bujutsu/budo but simply as an outgrowth of his study in the arts taught by Kuroda Sensei and Angier Sensei. I remember being at in the dojo and we were all a bit lit up on Knob Creek and beers, James being a bit happy, told me he was trying to make his understanding of Yanagi ryu fit with all the other things he had trained in previously and referred to it as James jutsu all the time.

    After he started studying with Kuroda Sensei, I saw the shift in how it was presented and it was apparent when I saw James demo at the Yoshida Ha Bujutsu dojo opening, he had consolidated things much more in a cohesive teaching methodology. But even then he never made any claims to be doing a koryu and at the party that evening still called it James jutsu and referred to it as his own presentation of what he had been taught, not as Komagawa-Kaishin ryu or Shidare Yanagi Ryu, even if he did perform kata from the Komagawa Kaishin ryu at the demo.

    In fact, the only people I've ever heard refer to it as classical kenjutsu are junior students or people who are not students of Nami Ryu. Check the Dojo of the 4 Winds website, nowhere on there does James refer to it as a classical Kenjutsu or iaijutsu.

    So, if James, who is the head of the art you study Walter, doesn't refer to it as such, as you sure you should be doing so?

    Sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong again...

  13. #13
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    (Stepping dangerously close to the is/is not koryu question...)

    For me it's pretty simple:
    -Koryu: Japanese budo founded pre-meiji (1868).
    -Gendai: Japanese budo founded in the meiji era and beyond.
    -Goshin: Non-Japanese budo founded in meiji/modern era *outside of Japan* but with obvious and verifiable roots back to Gendai or Koryu arts.
    -MMA: Martial arts with various cultural influences and no specific fundamental tie back to gendai/koryu arts, but can have some significant similarities.

    The difficulty is that there's no judgement here (or shouldn't be) about the quality of the art by putting it into one of these groups. There's some really bad koryu out there whose practitioners couldn't fight their way out of a wet noodle rope, and there's some MMA guys who are really really good. For me, it's about honesty. The sword art I study is gendai (founded in 1890), but after over a decade I'm still finding more depth in the waza. When I stack what I'm doing up against other arts I've seen at embukai and taikai, I never feel left out. My aiki/jujutsu that I do is even younger, and at this point definitely goshin budo. It's changed too much from what came over to even be considered gendai in my mind, but it's great. I just love getting to work on such difficult stuff with some great guys.

    I don't really like to see really modern arts talking up their arts as if they were koryu. I think IshiYama is even referring to itself as "Shin-Koryu" that just doesn't do it for me. I also find it interesting that the goshin arts are the ones most likely to be using 'soke' 'kaicho' and all of the really formal language. Most of the gendai and koryu guys I know just use 'sensei' when referring to people (unless they're specifically talking about organizational structure).
    Christian Moses
    **Certified Slimy, Moronic, Deranged and Demented Soul by Saigo-ha Daito Ryu!**
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    I suppose Goshin would be more appropriate at that.
    Charles Mahan

    Iaido - Breaking down bad habits,
    and building new ones.

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    We practice old classical Kenjutsu and Iaijutsu at Boston Nami Ryu in the Boston, MA area.
    A Nami Ryu demonstration of tameshigiri with a little glimpse into old classical Kenjutsu and Iaijutsu of our system of ancient Samurai combative arts
    Kenjutsu is the Omote or outward manifestation of the Samurai bugei. Aiki jujutsu is the Ura or inner manifestation. The connection to Kenjutsu is the reason that classical jujutsu and aiki jujutsu is so sophisticated, simple, and effective.
    For someone who doesn't know anything from anything, I would say the choice of wording and turns of phrase as quoted above seem a rather roundabout way of describing the art, as it is most certainly is not, by any definition, a classical/ancient/Japanese/koryu art.

    Furthermore, I find the description of Namiryu (http://dojoofthefourwinds.com/origins.html) quite misleading (whether intentional or not):
    Traditionally martial arts in Japan are passed on from teacher to student by direct transmission. The origins of Nami ryu are in the martial traditions of the Yoshida clan of the Satsuma region of Kyushu, Japan.
    Kind of makes it sound like James inherited (densho-sareta) Namiryu directly from his Japanese sensei.

    I think the problem is (and not limited to this discussion only): for folks who are not actively and deeply involved in a koryu at a true sensei-deshi level, the concept of teacher-student transmission, and the responsibilities to the ryu encompassed in the relationship, are difficult if not impossible to grasp. Perhaps a discussion for another thread...

    Regards,
    r e n

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