The weapon-laws of the Edo-period

[Fred27]

It is my understanding that when the Tokugawa shogunate came into being it enforced strict laws that said that only members of the warrior class could carry or keep weapons. (with maybe a few exceptions). These were the same law that Hideyoshi first formulated and put into action during his reign. (like the famous "sword-hunt" episode). Hideyoshi collected swords and weapons in this "hunt" as to minimize the risk of peasant-rebellions, which was quite understandable.

But peasants and warrior monks aside, how did this apply to the numerous Ronin that travelled the countryside? The most obvious example that springs to mind is Miyamoto Musashi, arguebly the most famous single Ronin in japanese history. He obviously carried weapons of some sorts for his many duels, eventhough he fought with a bokken from time to time.

So how was the law enforced? During the first 30 years of the Edo-period there were thousands of Ronin. Was there even a possibility of disarming all those thousands? And even later still there were plenty armed Ronin on the country-side

[Brian Owens]

If a ronin is an unemployed/masterless samurai, would he still not be allowed to wear two swords and possess other weapons? Were he to be stripped of his weapons, how would he regain employment?

Also, employed or not, he is still a samurai; that's a matter of birth or entitlement, not job description, yes?

[Fred27]

If a ronin is an unemployed/masterless samurai, would he still not be allowed to wear two swords and possess other weapons? Were he to be stripped of his weapons, how would he regain employment?

Also, employed or not, he is still a samurai; that's a matter of birth or entitlement, not job description, yes?

Well maybe thats the real question behind my first question: Is a ronin a samurai in terms of legality?

[Andrew S]

Well maybe thats the real question behind my first question: Is a ronin a samurai in terms of legality?

Since they could gain employment under a daimyo, I'd say yes. Also, it's probably better to think of the Edo era social classes as castes - as Brian said, it's a matter of birth.

[Fred27]

Also, it's probably better to think of the Edo era social classes as castes - as Brian said, it's a matter of birth.

My bad

With that in mind it makes alot more sense. Thankies!

[Norbert Funke]

Well maybe thats the real question behind my first question: Is a ronin a samurai in terms of legality?

I am just reading a book about the different classes of the Tokugawa era. It said that since Ronin not really lost the samurai status due to the death of their daimyo, they all of sudden were outside the class system themself. The Tokugawa classes were divided into Samurai, Farmes, Craftsmen and Merchants. The sword rule applied only to these classes. Ronin where the most free men in that period.

Just in case someone is interested, the book is:

Everyday Life in Traditional Japan - by Charles J. Dunn

[Fred27]

I am just reading a book about the different classes of the Tokugawa era. It said that since Ronin not really lost the samurai status due to the death of their daimyo, they all of sudden were outside the class system themself. The Tokugawa classes were divided into Samurai, Farmes, Craftsmen and Merchants. The sword rule applied only to these classes. Ronin where the most free men in that period.

Just in case someone is interested, the book is:

Everyday Life in Traditional Japan - by Charles J. Dunn

Outside the class-system? Kinda like the doctors of the Edo-period then.

I'll see if I can find that book at the library. Thanks.

[Andrew S]

Outside the class-system? Kinda like the doctors of the Edo-period then.

Oh? I was under the impression that most of (if not all) the doctors were of samurai class/rank and often ronin.

[Fred27]

Oh? I was under the impression that most of (if not all) the doctors were of samurai class/rank and often ronin.

-shrugs- Not my words. I read it from one of Stephen Turnbulls books that doctors were either outside or in between the different classes/castes.

[Bache]

Hej

Its correct there were 4 classes, and an additional group of people who were not regarded as part of this classsystem. These "Classless" people were called Burakumin (see: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...0/ai_102140954 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin ) and were subdivided into Ota (very filthy/dirty) og Hinin (non people). They were not regarded as human, and usually did work connected with taboo. That includes working with the dead, fx doing the cutting for the doctors, which also happened in Europe earlier.
This Burakumin are similar to the castless of India, and the varies outcasts of Europe.
Concerning the weaponlaw of Tokugawa/Edo Jidai. The Ronin were Bushi/Samurai, and thereby allowed to carry weapons. Even though they were not in the service of a lord they still possessed rank of nobility. In the first decades of the Tokugawa Jidai there were other problems of greater importance than unorganised Ronin.

Hope it helps

[Brian Owens]

...Ota (very filthy/dirty)...

Isn't it "Eta"?

[Andrew S]

The eta/hinin outcastes seem to originate with Toyotomi Hideyoshi - he made sure that people in certain logistical trades (transport, well-digging) became socially marginalized. He was also the one to cement the caste system before the Edo era. Too bad he didn't apply it to himself - there is a school of thought that says Hideyoshi was of peasant or even merchant birth.

[Bache]

Sorry. Your correct.

[Fred27]

there is a school of thought that says Hideyoshi was of peasant or even merchant birth.

Aye I've heard this too. One tale I heard was that in his youth, Hideyoshi was the son of a peasant and became an errand boy, and that he was at one time charged with carrying a rather large sum of money to some samurai lord somewhere but instead used that money to buy a suit of armour and weapons and enrolled as an ashigaru.

Although isn't it more fact than tale that Hideyoshi was indeed of a very low birth? (in relation to Tokugawa Ieyasu)? I know he couldnt be Shogun because he was not related to the Minamoto family and thus became Regent.

[Tri-ring]

Konbanwa everyone,

Eta and hinin took the posts of prospects, hunters, hide tanners, manure collectors and grave diggers as well.
I believe these casts first started as an out cast of the buddist religion hierarchy since it prohibits sacrafice of other animals for his/her own gain.
Within the shi-no-ko-sho-eta-hinin cast system their is another unmentioned cast, the religions cast since in theory anybody was able to become a monk.
There are also the Kabuki actors which if my memory serves me correct belongs to the eta cast.
I hope this helps.

K.Miwa