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Thread: M4 vs Other Bullups as a club??

  1. #1
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    Default M4 vs Other Bullups as a club??

    2 Broken stocks from dummy practise and 1 broken stock from cracking it against someones head show it as a bit unreliable.

    Your thoughts? Prefrence?

    I kind of like the folding G36 from HK very stable but my favorite is the old FAL Para with the metal folding stock
    Keep to the way of the warrior

    Mc'pherson Lee

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    two thumbs up for the FAL para or not. Sweet rifle. I've heard lots of good things about the La France M-14s.
    Anthony Gutierrez
    "Semper Paratus"

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    Not to be jerk here, but a bullpup is not an assault rifle. A bullpup has the magazine behind the trigger group. It matters if you are using the weapon as a club only because it affects the length of the weapon.
    joe yang, the three edged sword of truth

    "Not going to be fooled by you again Joe Yang's right you are evil and self-serving." Haiyomi

    "Give my regards to joe yang. very intelligent man." Sojobow

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    I thought the location of the magazine had no bearing on the name. I thought it was barrel length that delineated between a carbine and a rifle?
    Mat Rous

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    I think what Joe is saying is that an M4 does not fit into the Bullpup class
    due to that way it is designed:

    Bullpup Carbine:



    M4 Carbine:



    The difference like joe said is that a bullpup has the magazine and
    chamber behind the trigger allowing for a longer barrel in a
    smaller overall package.

    A bullpup can be a carbine, assault rifle or sniper rifle.

    My favorite:

    Walther WA 2000:

    Joe Stitz

    "Black belt and white belt are the same, white belt is the beginning of technique. Black belt is the beginning of understanding. Both are beginner belts."
    - Doug Perry -Hanshi, KuDan -Shorin Ryu ShorinKan

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    Thanks for the links Joe. Yes, a bullpup is a carbine, a carbine is not neccessarily a bullpup. I don't usually split hairs, but in this case it may make a difference. A "butt stroke" is typically delivered by holding the weapon by the stock. Modern assault rifles, carbines and bullpups are not usually carried by the stock like an M1 or M14, ready to strike. The stock on a bullpup can be very bulky.
    joe yang, the three edged sword of truth

    "Not going to be fooled by you again Joe Yang's right you are evil and self-serving." Haiyomi

    "Give my regards to joe yang. very intelligent man." Sojobow

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe yang
    Thanks for the links Joe. Yes, a bullpup is a carbine, a carbine is not neccessarily a bullpup.
    But a Bullpup is also not neccessarily a carbine.

    I agree though - the SA80 is useless as a club. It's bayonet is also terrible.
    Mat Rous

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    I stand corrected, the bullpup design is not limited to carbines.
    joe yang, the three edged sword of truth

    "Not going to be fooled by you again Joe Yang's right you are evil and self-serving." Haiyomi

    "Give my regards to joe yang. very intelligent man." Sojobow

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    Ok ok guys but you know what i meant. So what about it any other guns you can recommend (folding stock)
    Keep to the way of the warrior

    Mc'pherson Lee

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    Lee, it isn't all entirely a digression. The grip on a bullpup may be too thick for a solid, striking grasp. Transitioning from the pistol grip to the stock on an "assault weapon" for a strike may not allow time for a solid grip. A weak grip can't help a weak stock, but hair splitting aside, wood stocks are generally the solid, particularly the laminated ones. Some of the fiber filled synthetic stocks are more stable. Folding stocks might be a poor choice.
    joe yang, the three edged sword of truth

    "Not going to be fooled by you again Joe Yang's right you are evil and self-serving." Haiyomi

    "Give my regards to joe yang. very intelligent man." Sojobow

  11. #11
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    Fair point my friend but we cant always be so picky about what we get issued with. Just for conversation sake what is your preferred weapon?
    Keep to the way of the warrior

    Mc'pherson Lee

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    Well since you are talking issue weapons I imagine you are talking military. My background is LEO and civilian professional and I find handguns and shotgun more practical. When it comes to carbines the A4 is almost the default weapon of choice here.
    joe yang, the three edged sword of truth

    "Not going to be fooled by you again Joe Yang's right you are evil and self-serving." Haiyomi

    "Give my regards to joe yang. very intelligent man." Sojobow

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    Gentlemen, I have read with great interest for a long time but I thought it was time to post, so here goes....

    I know that this subject began relating specifically to using a carbine/assault rifle in melee but it seems to have widened.

    The most important factor, in my opinion, for an assault rifle/carbine (or any other personal firearm) is whether it is suitable for the environment it is being used in. The current focal point of operations is the middle east, a dusty, dry environment with lots of sand.

    The apparent "weapon of choice" for security professionals appears to be the Colt M4 carbine. This only works well in such an environment because of the specialist oils and cleaners used on it on a continuous basis. It is high maintenace (just like my old girlfriend). The "enemy" in this region, for example the Taliban, do not have these accessories and rely on a more reliable weapon... the AK47 and its derivatives/versions.

    Okay, the AK47 and its brethern lack the accuracy of more modern carbines/assault rifle and it is old and was "mass produced" but it is reliable. It does the job for our foes! and should never be under estimated. Fundamenetally it is metal and a special plastic/compressed wood which makes it a good club as well!

    My favourite carbine is the Czechoslovak SA58 tactical (5.56 calibre), it has a similar design to the Kalasnikov but is a lot thinner without losing its sturdiness. The quality of production is also much higher. I used the SA58 for most operations whilst I was in Cechensko (Chechniya), Dagestan, Siberia and the former Yugoslavia.

    Incidentially my pistol of choice is the H&K USP 40 S&W calibre.

    Thanks for reading.....
    Last edited by Pavol Schreiner; 25th October 2006 at 04:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavol Schreiner

    My favourite carbine is the Czechoslovak SA58 tactical (5.56 calibre)

    Thanks for reading.....
    Apologies, It is 7.62 calibre.
    Paul (Pavol) Schreiner

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    Like i have said in other posts these days i swear by the five.seven as a sidearm. And the G36 ismy preffered rifle at the moment. Never seen this Chec. rifle you mention i've seen the rip off form the ol FN but not this one you mention. Can you direct me to a link with more info or post a pic and some stats for it? Thanks.
    Keep to the way of the warrior

    Mc'pherson Lee

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