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Thread: I can't figure out these words. Can someone please help?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens
    To answer the first part of your question:

    If あかいひ (akaihi) is shown in your book as 赤い日 it means "red day" from the verb aka-iro (red-colored) and hi (day).
    Yeah, it's shown in my book like that, and yes, I knew it meant red day, but then, I thought that was ridiculous and decided I must be wrong and it must mean something else. I didn't know if it was an entirely new word or if I was right and it did mean "red day." That made NO sense whatsoever to me. I never have heard of a red day before. I tried to look it up as one entire word, and I couldn't find it. So, I got more confused.

    Oh. What's this aka iro. Do you mean
    あかいろ? This is why I don't like romaji... it looks totally different than Hiragana. That means the color red.

    I don't know what ひようびは あかいひです (hiyoubi wa akaihidesu) means; it seems to say that something is red, but I can't find hiyoubi in any dictionaries.

    Edit: Ah ha! While I was searching dictionaries, I think Karasu Maru nailed it: "ひようびは" may be incorrect furigana.
    He did, and it was. I'm sorry! I wasn't paying a bit of attention to what I was writing. I should have written にちようび.

    If it's actually にちようびは (nichiyoubi wa), then にちようびは あかいひです (nichiyoubi wa akaihidesu) could mean "Sunday is a red-letter day."

    Do the kanji look like this? 日曜日は赤い日です
    Yes, they do.

    Thank you so much for your help Brian-san!!
    Carolyn Hall


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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew S
    True, some kanji do have multiple meanings, but it is something you have to get used to. Think in terms of context. The notion of Sunday being a red day is weird unless you're familiar with the typical Japanese wall calendar, on which all dates for Sunday are in red, and usually all dates for Saturday are in blue.
    Ohhhhhh... I see! Yay! It makes more sense! Do they always refer to Sunday as a red day or what? Can it also mean holiday like 休みの日 does? That's really interesting they put them in blue and red like that.


    The weekdays are named after celestial bodies, but only use the first character of the star's name. eg. Mars is 火星, Saturn is 土星, etc.
    Oh. Maybe that explains the furigana over the kanji for the days of the week... Could you please write the names of the planets in hiragana for me and their respective kanji? I can't read those planet kanji yet. Please no romaji. I'm so used to hiragana that I can't even read the romaji most of the time.

    The other problem is that basic textbooks often use unnatural language to simplify things (vocabulary, grammar, etc.)
    A statement like
    にちようび あか じ  か
    日曜日は赤い字で書かれている。would probably be more useful, but it involves a verb other than a "be" verb and uses passive voice, something most language teachers would shy away from when teaching beginners.
    [/quote]

    I've no idea what the second half of that says, hehehe! My book hasn't talked about passive voice and whatever that new verb is yet. So, hehehe, you're right.

    Hope this helps.
    It sure did! Thank you very much!
    Carolyn Hall


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoru
    ...Oh. Maybe that explains the furigana over the kanji for the days of the week... Could you please write the names of the planets in hiragana for me and their respective kanji? I can't read those planet kanji yet. Please no romaji. I'm so used to hiragana that I can't even read the romaji most of the time.
    I'm at work right now, and don't have a Japanese WP, so romaji is the best I can do. If it bothers you, just re-write them in your Japanese WP and they'll be converted to hiragana. (Type the roman letters in exactly as I've written them, then hit [Enter] without touching the space bar. If you hit the space bar it will try to convert the text into kanji.)

    The first three heavenly bodies have ancient Japanese names:

    Sun = Taiyou
    Moon = Tsuki
    Earth = Chikyuu

    The next five planets have names based on the Chinese names, which are in turn based on the “Five Elements” of Chinese alchemy:

    Mercury = Suisei – the water planet
    Venus = Kinsei - the metal planet
    Mars = Kasei - the fire planet
    Jupiter = Mokusei - the wood planet
    Saturn = Dosei - the earth planet

    The final three planets have names that are direct translations of their meanings in Latin, because they were discovered after Japan’s renewed contact with the West:

    Uranus = Tennousei - the heavenly king’s planet
    Neptune = Kaiousei - the ocean planet
    Pluto = Meiousei - the dark planet

    These last three may have better translations. Those are mine, based on my limited understanding of the kanji.
    Last edited by Brian Owens; 10th October 2006 at 05:40.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens
    ...Neptune = Kaiousei - the ocean planet
    Pluto = Meiousei - the dark planet...
    Oops. Those should have read:

    Neptune = Kaiousei - the ocean king's planet
    Pluto = Meiousei - the dark king's planet

    Still probably not right, but closer.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens
    I'm at work right now, and don't have a Japanese WP, so romaji is the best I can do. If it bothers you, just re-write them in your Japanese WP and they'll be converted to hiragana. (Type the roman letters in exactly as I've written them, then hit [Enter] without touching the space bar. If you hit the space bar it will try to convert the text into kanji.)
    That's ok. Sorry!

    But oh WOW... I didn't know it could do that! I don't have a Japanese word processor... But I've got the IME thing to write with. Can IME do this too? I hope? If so, how? The help function is completely useless...

    The first three heavenly bodies have ancient Japanese names:

    Sun = Taiyou
    Moon = Tsuki
    Earth = Chikyuu

    The next five planets have names based on the Chinese names, which are in turn based on the “Five Elements” of Chinese alchemy:

    Mercury = Suisei – the water planet
    Venus = Kinsei - the metal planet
    Mars = Kasei - the fire planet
    Jupiter = Mokusei - the wood planet
    Saturn = Dosei - the earth planet

    The final three planets have names that are direct translations of their meanings in Latin, because they were discovered after Japan’s renewed contact with the West:

    Uranus = Tennousei - the heavenly king’s planet
    Neptune = Kaiousei - the ocean planet
    Pluto = Meiousei - the dark planet

    These last three may have better translations. Those are mine, based on my limited understanding of the kanji.
    Thank you!!! That's very interesting... That does really help. I knew there was something different about the translations. So, I take it the first half of those words are the furigana above those kanji in my book? It sure looks like it. If so, that gives me meaning now for the words.

    Seriously, I really really appreciate your patience and help with all my detailed questions. I know I asked way too many.

    *れい*
    Carolyn Hall


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoru
    ...But oh WOW... I didn't know it could do that! I don't have a Japanese word processor... But I've got the IME thing to write with. Can IME do this too? I hope? If so, how? The help function is completely useless...
    Yep. IME is what I usually use for my JWP, unless I need brush-type fonts in which case I use KanjiWord for Windows 3.5 (no longer available nor supported).

    Depending on the version of Windows you use, your IME may be different, but for mine I select "Japanese" from the list on my task bar and the IME tool box pops up.

    Then I select from the list whether I want hiragana, katakana, etc.

    Then I start typing in romaji and IME shows the kana. After entering a string I can push [Enter] to use the kana as is, or hit the spacebar to convert the kana to kanji.

    If I don't like the first kanji that pops up, hitting the spacebar again will give a list of most possible kanji for those kana, and I can either click on it or hit the number next to it.

    Sometimes, a long string of kana will only be partially converted, and then you have to construct the combinations piece by piece, but with practice it becomes easier.

    There's a pretty good guide to using IME, but the Hep function isn't it. It's Declan Software's Guide to Installing and Using Microsoft's Japanese IME, which it describes as "A comprehensive guide to installing and using the Microsoft Japanese IME for Windows XP, Windows 2000 and Window95/98/ME. "

    Here's the link: http://www.declan-software.com/japanese_ime/

    IME is really fun to play with. Good luck!
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Okay, I'm home now and have IME available, so I'll re-post my original list but with hiragana and kanji.

    Sun = たいよう -- 太陽
    Moon = つき -- 月
    Earth = ちきゅう -- 地球

    Mercury = すいせい -- 水星
    Venus = きんせい -- 金星
    Mars = かせい -- 火星
    Jupiter = もくせい -- 木星
    Saturn = どせい -- 土星

    Uranus = てんおうせい -- 天王星
    Neptune = かいおうせい -- 海王星
    Pluto = めいおうせい -- 冥王星
    Last edited by Brian Owens; 10th October 2006 at 10:50.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens
    Yep. IME is what I usually use for my JWP, unless I need brush-type fonts in which case I use KanjiWord for Windows 3.5 (no longer available nor supported).

    Depending on the version of Windows you use, your IME may be different, but for mine I select "Japanese" from the list on my task bar and the IME tool box pops up.

    Then I select from the list whether I want hiragana, katakana, etc.

    Then I start typing in romaji and IME shows the kana. After entering a string I can push [Enter] to use the kana as is, or hit the spacebar to convert the kana to kanji.
    hehehe, booooy do I feel stupid... I didn't realise IME is a word processor. All I know, is that it lets me write in Japanese. When I think of word processor, I think of those old things that you typed on ages ago. So... Can we say, DUMMY??? hahaha... Cause that's what I am now! Gee, I'm so used to just writing and hiragana coming out of the thing and not thinking about romaji, that I didn't realise I could take what you wrote in romaji and have the hiragana come out too!

    If I don't like the first kanji that pops up, hitting the spacebar again will give a list of most possible kanji for those kana, and I can either click on it or hit the number next to it.
    Now that, I didn't realise I could do. Nice! I had been wondering how it would know what kanji to use.

    Sometimes, a long string of kana will only be partially converted, and then you have to construct the combinations piece by piece, but with practice it becomes easier.
    I haven't tried doing that yet, but this is good to know. Thanks!

    There's a pretty good guide to using IME, but the Hep function isn't it. It's Declan Software's Guide to Installing and Using Microsoft's Japanese IME, which it describes as "A comprehensive guide to installing and using the Microsoft Japanese IME for Windows XP, Windows 2000 and Window95/98/ME. "

    Here's the link: http://www.declan-software.com/japanese_ime/

    IME is really fun to play with. Good luck!
    Oh yeah... I remember that page! That's the page that Tea Guy-san gave to me in the first place to help me set up IME a couple years ago. Thanks! I had that bookmarked on my laptop until it crashed.

    Thanks for your help!
    Carolyn Hall


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens
    Okay, I'm home now and have IME available, so I'll re-post my original list but with hiragana and kanji.

    Sun = たいよう -- 太陽
    Moon = つき -- 月
    Earth = ちきゅう -- 地球

    Mercury = すいせい -- 水星
    Venus = きんせい -- 金星
    Mars = かせい -- 火星
    Jupiter = もくせい -- 木星
    Saturn = どせい -- 土星

    Uranus = てんおうせい -- 天王星
    Neptune = かいおうせい -- 海王星
    Pluto = めいおうせい -- 冥王星

    Thank you so much Brian-san!!

    Those five in the middle... it looks like the first part of each word is what's above the kanji in my book. Cool.

    Except, つき - 月. I've got げつ written over
    月. That makes no sense. When it's read as
    げつ the kanji means month. Every other weekday kanji has planet meanings but this one doesn't unless you read it two ways. Silly! It ought to be つき。 Oh well. Can't have everything just right.

    にち(日) well, it's not the same as above but it's meaning is clear.  

    Anyway, thank you again very much for the explanation. The days of the week now make sense!
    Carolyn Hall


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoru
    hehehe, booooy do I feel stupid... I didn't realise IME is a word processor. All I know, is that it lets me write in Japanese.
    In the strict sense, IME isn't a word processor. I guess you'd say it's a "front end" for a word processor. The actual meaning of IME, according to Microsoft, is "input method editor" (although DeClan calls it ""input management editor").

    Anyway, IME works on top of whatever word processing program you are using -- Microsoft Word, Outlook Express's E-Mail page, Internet Explorer's text editor, etc. -- to enable the non-Japanese versions to accept Japanese input. (There are IMEs for other non-roman languages, too.)

    Anyway, no reason to feel stupid; I was using the term "word processor" a little loosely. I know exactly what you were thinking about, though; I used to use an IBM DisplayWriter back in the day, and word processing was essentially all it could do. It was pretty much a glorified typewriter.

    Nowadays I use MS Word for most word processing, and I can hardly wait to get a new, more powerful, computer so I can upgrade from Windows ME to XP (or Vista) so I can use Japanese in all applications. Right now I'm limited to IME in Outlook or IE Explorer, or KanjiWORD as a stand-alone JWP. IME won't work in Word v. 6.x, which is what I have.

    We had Windows XP at the Nippon Business Institute, and I could use IME in Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc. It was great.

    Anyway, I'm glad I could help with the days of the week and the planets. Keep up the good questions; all the research for answers keeps me on my toes.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaoru
    ...Except, つき - 月. I've got げつ written over 月. That makes no sense. When it's read as げつ the kanji means month. Every other weekday kanji has planet meanings but this one doesn't unless you read it two ways. Silly! It ought to be つき。
    Ah, you're running into that bane of Nihongo students everywhere: On and Kun readings.

    げつ and がつ are On readings, whereas つき is the Kun reading. Since one doesn't mix On and Kun readings in the same compound, 月曜日 is read as げつようび。

    No matter which reading you use, though, even if you don't know any pronunciations, 月 means "moon."

    月 can mean month (which comes from the old word "moonth"), but you need to see it in context to be sure. If you're reading about astronomy, astrology, etc. it most likely means "moon." If you're reading about time, days, the calendar, etc., it probably means "month" (Just imagine those old cowboys and indians movies, where the indian brave says to his cowboy friend, "I not see heap big buffalo in many moons.") -- unless you're talking about days of the week, when it probably refers to "the day of the moon" (moon-day / Monday).

    Some other "moon" words are:

    月光 (げっこう)= gekkou = moonlight

    夕月 (ゆうずき)= yuuzuki = evening moon (the time when the moonlight is brightest)

    月見 (つきみ)= tsukimi = viewing the moon
    (which can be done from a moon-viewing platform in a garden (つきみだい = 月見台)

    九月 (くがつ)= Kugatsu = September (when the Moon Viewing ceremony(お月見)took place at the Seattle Japanese Garden)

    月食 (げっしょく)= gesshouku = lunar eclipse (what you don't want during an O-tsukimi)

    and, last but not least, 正月 (しょうがつ)= Shougatsu = the New Year (also "January")

    So, lots of new kanji there, but I think it demonstrates well the many words that contain the concept of "moon."

    HTH.
    Last edited by Brian Owens; 12th October 2006 at 12:23.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Default Picking Nits

    Mr Owens,
    My compliments on a well-thought-out, easy-to-understand explanation for beginners regarding the On-Kun problem. However, you said, "...one doesn't mix On and Kun readings in the same compound..." Now, not to play the Grammar Nazi here, but as I'm sure you know, that's generally true..... except when it's not. At the risk of confusing the newby Nihongo student even more, I'll continue.

    Getsu-you-bi is in fact, an On-Kun combination. Getsu and you are of course, On readings, but bi (hi) is a Kun reading. Unfortunately for the student, there are thousands of such combinations in the language. That's what makes learning Japanese so much fun.

    But if it's any consolation to Kaoru and others, it gets easier after a while. With experience, some combinations will just sound weird to your mind's ear. You'll still have to consult dictionaries or references on occasion, but I bet you'll get pretty good at it eventually.

    So, good luck to all the Japanese language students out there. And Mr Owens, sorry for nitpicking there.

    Sincerely,

    Mitya Santiago
    Mitya Santiago

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitya
    ... Getsu-you-bi is in fact, an On-Kun combination. Getsu and you are of course, On readings, but bi (hi) is a Kun reading. ...sorry for nitpicking there.
    Oh, pick away. Pick away. That's how we learn.

    I actually didn't look far enough into the compound. When I saw that Getsu and You were both On, I stopped, because I thought that answered Kaoru's question of 'why getsu instead of tsuki.' But you are right that the second half is a combined reading. (I was thinking that jitsu was the Kun reading. I had it backward.)

    Thanks for the correction.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Ms. Hall,

    If I may give you a piece of advice. Do not think of different readings as having different meanings. Sometimes they do. Often they don't. Instead, just focus on the core meaning of the character and what it means in that particular compound. As you read, focus on the kanji as the determiner of meaning, and regard the furigana purely as a guide to reading. Very often, words that have the same sounds are actually differentiated by their kanji. E.g.

    聞く きく to hear
    効く きく to effect
    利く きく to be effective
    訊く きく to ask, inquire
    聴く きく to listen (to music, etc.)

    Meanwhile, all of these kanji show up in compounds wherein their readings are different, but the core meanings remain same:

    新聞 しんぶん newspaper (lit. "newly heard")
    効果 こうか effect, factor
    便利 べんり convenient
    訊問 じんもん interrogation, questioning
    視聴率 しちょうりつ ratings (TV, radio, etc.; lit. "viewing and listening rate")
    Josh Reyer

    Swa sceal man don, ţonne he ćt guđe gengan ţenceđ longsumne lof, na ymb his lif cearađ. - The Beowulf Poet

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    Names of places are another area where onyomi and kunyomi are liberally mixed together.

    We've got the lovely:
    大手町 - おおてまち - ootemachi
    神保町 - じんぼうちょう - jimbouchou

    Right next to each other on the Hanzomon line in Tokyo.

    The kunyomi for that last kanji is machi while the onyomi is chou (meaning is town). Even the Japanese have problems with it. That's why station names are written in hiragana next to the kanji. It's also for the younger train riders.

    Study study study.
    Memorize memorize memorize.
    Adam Westphal
    http://adamjiro.net/

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