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Thread: The Bujutsu of Takeda Shingen?

  1. #16
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    Hi Daniel,

    Ohba is the only one that I have heard.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

  2. #17
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    Default The Bujutsu of Takeda Shingen?

    Hello all,

    I was wondering if there was any type of bujutsu associated with the Takeda family.

    Thanks,
    Ted Taylor

    "A martial spirit embiggens the smallest man."

  3. #18
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    Hi Ted,
    Not that close, but try this posting over in the Aikijutsu forum...The Daito Ryu is probably as close as it'll get since Takeda Ryu Heiho doesn't seem to exist anymore..The Daito Ryu claim ascendancy from the Takeda family...Through Shingen if I remember correctly..Or bypassing him but closely..
    Regards..
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  4. #19
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    Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu, of which Sokaku Takeda is considered the reviver of the art. People disagree how much of this style originates in the Takeda family and how old it is. But at least a portion of it is believed to come from a Takeda family martial art. You can find plenty of information in the Aikijujutsu forum. Hope this helps.
    Jose Navarro

    Hakuhoryu Aikibudo

  5. #20
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    ......And if Mr. Navarro had posted any closer to mine I'd be looking for some hispanic links in my own family tree...
    Hehe..
    Regards.
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  6. #21
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    Cheers guys. Will try there over there.
    Ted Taylor

    "A martial spirit embiggens the smallest man."

  7. #22
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    Ted, I reckon the lineage would be pretty well documented online if you wanted a search on Google.com...They claim a line running straight through the Takeda family back to Shinra Saburo...The head of the Takeda lineage pretty much...Interesting line to follow..Next time I see you I'll see if I can point you to some good books to read on it...
    You could try any of the series by Stan Pranin from Aikijournal and maybe some of the books by Kondo Sensei about the art...
    There are others too...But I'd start with those...
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  8. #23
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    Great minds think alike. I was pretty surprised to see your post as well. And you can just call me Jose.
    Jose Navarro

    Hakuhoryu Aikibudo

  9. #24
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    Guys, get a room.

    Seriously, thanks again.
    Ted Taylor

    "A martial spirit embiggens the smallest man."

  10. #25
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    Ted....You're only saying that cause you've seen me in a skirt...
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  11. #26
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    Yeah, and you looked so cute that you had to fight off your sempai with a large stick.
    Ted Taylor

    "A martial spirit embiggens the smallest man."

  12. #27
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    Heh...No comment...
    How are things down there? Well I hope?
    Best to all next time you see them eh?
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JNavarro
    Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu, of which Sokaku Takeda is considered the reviver of the art. People disagree how much of this style originates in the Takeda family and how old it is. But at least a portion of it is believed to come from a Takeda family martial art. You can find plenty of information in the Aikijujutsu forum. Hope this helps.
    There is a key distinction to be made here. Its is one thing to represent that one practices an art, and quite another to represent that an art is what one practices. Pranins' book identifies that TAKEDA Sokaku taught something and was induced to name it DAITO-RYU by YOSHIDA Kotaro. However, we can't know how much of what TAKEDA Sokaku taught was original to the Takeda family or the Aizu clan, for that matter. Would this then past muster as an "art"? Guess thats a very individualized sort of conclusion.

    Flipping the coin over, we know that historically there was an art which is documented and identified as "DAITO-RYU" and there has been not a little time and energy spent by folks wanting to show a connection between this old practice and what TAKEDA Sokaku taught in the 20th Century. Again conclusions seem very individualized.

    Personally, I think that the Aizu estate was a "hot-house" of experimentation and amalgamation among a variety of sources including Ueyshiba, Takeda, Funakoshi, Yoshida and perhaps, even Toyama and others. However, what came out of those efforts in the first third of the 20th Century is almost roundly represented as having old, old provenance which is about par for the course among Asian traditions, yes? Thoughts?

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
    Bruce W Sims
    www.midwesthapkido.com

  14. #29
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    Dear Mr. Taylor,

    Daito-ryu might be the closest thing to a Takeda Shingen martial art alive today.

    There is a ryu called Takeda-ryu that does archery and yabusame. I saw them at the Meiji embu and they are very good! I do not think they are related to the Shingen branch of the clan though. They have an English website here: http://www.yabusame.com/

    There was a book published in the 1600's about Takeda family budo called Heiho Okugisho. It was translated into English by Obata sensei of Shinkendo fame. Mr. Obata is a decendent of the Takeda general Obata Nobusada (I think?). If memory serves they will be republishing the book soon as it is sold out and has been for a while now.

    Daito-ryu includes Shingen in the lineage of the ryu, but it was actually his younger brother Kunitsugu that formed the Takeda of Aizu clan. The main Takeda line of Shingen died out with his son Katsuyori. So Shingen is an uncle of the Daito-ryu lineage. If memory serves me I think Shingen may have studied Kashima Shin-ryu sojutsu. You should check out Dr. Friday's book "Legacies of the Sword," for more detail.

    I hope this helps a little
    Christopher Covington

    Daito-ryu aikijujutsu
    Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage-ryu heiho

    All views expressed here are my own and don't necessarily represent the views of the arts I practice, the teachers and people I train with or any dojo I train in.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by glad2bhere
    Flipping the coin over, we know that historically there was an art which is documented and identified as "DAITO-RYU" and there has been not a little time and energy spent by folks wanting to show a connection between this old practice and what TAKEDA Sokaku taught in the 20th Century. Again conclusions seem very individualized.

    Personally, I think that the Aizu estate was a "hot-house" of experimentation and amalgamation among a variety of sources including Ueyshiba, Takeda, Funakoshi, Yoshida and perhaps, even Toyama and others. However, what came out of those efforts in the first third of the 20th Century is almost roundly represented as having old, old provenance which is about par for the course among Asian traditions, yes? Thoughts?
    Bruce
    Great post.
    Is that true?
    If so, then can it be argued Daito-Ryu has similar 'roots'/historical authenticity to such modern arts as Bartitsu...?
    Ulfric Douglas

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