American Aiki-en Aiki Budo Kokorogake Law Enforcement Dojo

[jdostie]

Does anybody know anything about this group?

http://aikibudo.freeservers.com/photo5.html

I didn't find them on a quick forum search. They have several videos posted on youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtckr2Np2vg for one, which will show you several other links.

They appear to have a loose connection with John Denora's group - based on their internet links, but I am not sure about that. I know I have seen the name Robin McBride before, but I can't remember where.

Also, the chief instructor " . . . studied the aiki arts from Hanshi Watanabe (Daito-ryu & Watanabe Ryu) and Master Roshi (Kenjutsu and Daito-ryu)."

Wondering if anyone know about them, or had other comments.

Thanks

[MColeman]

Does anybody know anything about this group?

http://aikibudo.freeservers.com/photo5.html

I didn't find them on a quick forum search. They have several videos posted on youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtckr2Np2vg for one, which will show you several other links.

They appear to have a loose connection with John Denora's group - based on their internet links, but I am not sure about that. I know I have seen the name Robin McBride before, but I can't remember where.

Also, the chief instructor " . . . studied the aiki arts from Hanshi Watanabe (Daito-ryu & Watanabe Ryu) and Master Roshi (Kenjutsu and Daito-ryu)."

Wondering if anyone know about them, or had other comments.

Thanks

I know a bit about them...

What information are you looking for?

[jdostie]

I know a bit about them...

What information are you looking for?

Not much really, just looking at the stuff they were doing in the videos looks almost exactly like what we were doing at Modesto Jujutsu Acadamy. I am wondering what flavor/line of Daito-Ryu they are practicing and if they are part of a larger organization. I've been to a seminar with a known "legitimate" Daito-Ryu line, and will be starting with a study group, but the stuff we learned in the seminar was different techniques, and while similar, did not cast any light on how close what I had learned in Modesto was to the real deal.

It won't change anything about my decision to join the study group . . . but I'd still like the comparison.

Edit - Looking at the web site, I see a Mke Coleman Sensei; I am assuming that's you. If so, your insight might shed good light on my query. - End Edit

Thanks

[MColeman]

...Looking at the web site, I see a Mike Coleman Sensei; I am assuming that's you...

Yessir - I am that Mike Coleman.

I emailed George Keely about this thread - he is much more eloquent than I am when speaking about lineage.

Here is my attempt at an explanation:

History of an art is important insofar as to pass it down. When it comes down to a confrontation - techniques that work trump lineage.

I believe Watanabe Ryu is what is mainly taught - but effective techniques from other styles are also covered.

As for the videos on youtube - for the most part, they are of the freestyle randori that is held at the end of every class. I think there are a couple belt tests on there as well. What I'm saying is that the videos are just taped workouts - nothing special.

Good Luck with your studies!!

[jdostie]

History of an art is important insofar as to pass it down. When it comes down to a confrontation - techniques that work trump lineage.

This makes sense to me, however the reason I ask is that I have been attending a school where the lineage stated is in question. While the techniques I have been learning seem effective, I am really not qualified to be an effective judge . . . many on this forum have suggested that I seek out "known" teachers.

I believe Watanabe Ryu is what is mainly taught - but effective techniques from other styles are also covered.

Daito-Ryu was listed as one of (and I got the impression at least) that this was the main system. Because that's what I've been at least nominally learning, that's the lineage I was wondering about.

As for the videos on youtube - for the most part, they are of the freestyle randori that is held at the end of every class. I think there are a couple belt tests on there as well. What I'm saying is that the videos are just taped workouts - nothing special.

I had recognized the randori for what it was, however in practice it very closely resembles what we were doing (in randori) at the school I've been attending. This prompted the initial query.

Because I have been doing quite a bit of looking around - Kondo Sensei's book, various videos of him on youtube, videos of other aikijujutsu systems/dojos, and finally the seminar I attended, I found quite a few similarities, but the randori and belt tests I saw from your dojo - seemed like they could fit right in at my school or visa versa. That then, was the basis - so I might understand better just how useful - and true to DR - the system I have been learning is.

Thanks for responding.

[Saburo]

The words "aiki-en" signifies the old Japanese Martial Art founded over 1050 years ago. From Aiki-En came the roots of the more modern aikijujutsu arts practiced today.

Could Mr. Coleman or Mr. Keely(or anyone) explain more about Aiki-en?

Thanks

[Nathan Scott]

History of an art is important insofar as to pass it down. When it comes down to a confrontation - techniques that work trump lineage.

No, practical technique does not "trump" lineage, they are simply two different things. Unfounded claims to historical arts is common among many out there who desire to use the names of such arts to make their "effective" techniques more sell-able to prospective students (misrepresentation and fraud), who are looking for authentic "Japanese" martial arts.

Questions about lineage and affiliation are legitimate. Those who advertise to the public and accept money for instruction should not have any hesitation answering such questions...

Regards,

[jdostie]

No, practical technique does not "trump" lineage, they are simply two different things. Unfounded claims to historical arts is common among many out there who desire to use the names of such arts to make their "effective" techniques more sell-able to prospective students (misrepresentation and fraud), who are looking for authentic "Japanese" martial arts.

Questions about lineage and affiliation are legitimate. Those who advertise to the public and accept money for instruction should not have any hesitation answering such questions...

Regards,

Let me rephrase when I said "makes sense to me", what I should have said was something like "I understand the emphasis on 'practical technique' - however, your web site lists Daito Ryu, hence the question of lineage."

[MColeman]

Those who advertise to the public and accept money for instruction should not have any hesitation answering such questions...

With all due respect,

It is our policy to provide phsically challenging aiki budo training at our dojos at no cost to any law enforcement officers. We do not accept money from our students! (Emphasis added)

Second paragraph


There is no problem answering lineage questions - or the occasional discussion of lineage.

I am of the opinion that when lineage, not technique, becomes the primary focus you lose the 'martial' portion of the art, and it becomes a history class. This is MY OPINION.


On a related note, Keely Sensei has registered and replied to the email but is still unable to post here.

[skylinerR32]

Whether or not someone accepts money for instruction, the second that lineage is mentioned as part what is being taught (directly or indirectly), there is a need to clarify the extent of any association(s) between technique and lineage.

Yes, lineage should not trump technique, especially not when the effectiveness (or lack thereof), may directly impact the life of a law enforcement officer in the line of duty; HOWEVER, mentioning lineage without elaborating on the depths to which it relates to the dojo curriculum being offered is disrespectful to those individuals who have sought out (and continue to seek out) schools of a particular lineage exactly because they were convinced of the effectiveness found in the art from qualified disseminators of that style, IMHO.

On the webpage titled "Chief Instructor's Profile" it states:
"He studied the aiki arts from Hanshi Watanabe (Daito-ryu & Watanabe Ryu) and Master Roshi (Kenjutsu and Daito-ryu)." (http://aikibudo.freeservers.com/about.html)

Questions:
What are the full names of these two instructors (Hanshi Watanabe & Master Roshi)?
From whom or in which organization did each study Daito-Ryu?
What ranking or qualifications did each attain during their time in Daito-Ryu?

Respectfully,
Jim Yang

[Nathan Scott]

Yes, lineage should not trump technique, especially not when the effectiveness (or lack thereof), may directly impact the life of a law enforcement officer in the line of duty; HOWEVER, mentioning lineage without elaborating on the depths to which it relates to the dojo curriculum being offered is disrespectful to those individuals who have sought out (and continue to seek out) schools of a particular lineage exactly because they were convinced of the effectiveness found in the art from qualified disseminators of that style, IMHO.

Ahhh, that was well spoken.

I've yet to get "history lessons" during keiko in a koryu art (training time is for training). For some, training under someone who is honest, ethical, and legitimately licensed by the art they wish to dedicate years of life, time and money is important. If the goal is modern CQC, then study modern CQC, or at least give it a new name and build your reputation on that (?)

What are the full names of these two instructors (Hanshi Watanabe & Master Roshi)?

I'm guessing the answer to one of these names is "Enio Sotou Roshi":

Torishimaru aikijutsu/ Richard Behrens

"Senso ryu" Aikijutsu/ Theodore Hanulak

Regards,

[jdostie]

It appears that they are rebuilding the web site. Currently the page has only the following:

The American Aiki-En Aiki Budo Kokorogake Dojo is a law enforcement dojo dedicated to training law enforcement officers in defensive tactics that are rooted in the aikibudo styles and traditions. We do not teach a formal martial art. We teach defensive tactics in a formal dojo setting.


Our teaching methods and philosophies follow closely in the paths of such renowned law enforcement defensive tactics instructors such as Lau Sensei and Koga Sensei (we claim no affiliation with either Bernie Lau or Robert Koga, just deep admiration for these pioneers of law enforcement defensive tactics systems).

Our training methods are not restricted to a single aiki style and we openly welcome law enforcement officers and trainers with various martial arts backgrounds.

The students that train at our dojos come from a wide range of law enforcement backgrounds. We have federal agents and officers, county officers, municipal officers, detention officers, law enforcement students, as well as civilian law enforcement trainers.

Our classes have included students and instructors with backgrounds in Kempo Karate, Isshin Ryu Karate, Korean Karate, American Karate, American Combat Jujitsu, Aikido, Aikijujutsu, Ninjutsu and Judo..

Our goal is to provide quality training to any and all law enforcement officers. We believe in well structured training methods that are physically demanding yet safe and reality oriented. The training methods employed and the techniques presented at our dojo have been time and street tested.

Our classes are taught in a traditional dojo style setting, placing an emphasis on discipline as well as quality instruction. We train twice a week at two different locations.. Each class is approximately two hours in duration and include such traditional training methods as kata, oyowaza, jiyuwaza, and randori.

[Saburo]

I guess they aren't going to attempt to explain anything but I hope they at least fix their tatami problem.

[Nathan Scott]

Well, I say kudos to them for having the confidence and integrity to remove the references to Daito-ryu and let their art/dojo stand on its own merit. That's more than we can say for many out there.

Regards,