Newaza in Ninjutsu

[k4013b]

Do you think standing techniques like onikudaki, omote gyaku, ura gyaku, etc. could be used on the ground in a fight? Say you are in a top advantage postition (basically sitting on the guy or as in BJJ terms "the mounted position), I'm pretty sure ura gyaku would work pretty well. If he pushes up on your chest, it is similar to grabbing the lapel and you could work the movement from there. PLUS, the guy can't back away and hes stuck in the position with his arm being contorted. Onikudaki could probably be used as well if he posts on your bicep. I'd like to hear your thoughts, ideas, and opinions on this subject.

[pacman2323]

If you are grappling on the ground and it presents itself I don't see why not.
same as Shime waza and using your strikes it all works you just have to know how to apply it. based on my experience. Or as one Tai chi teacher told me when I asked him what would happen if he was on bottom mound and someone was trying to ground and pound or put on a joint lock he said"I would use my chi to prject him off" after he said that I left :P
-chi jonesone

[paradoxbox]

The best way to find out what works is to do it in randori against other ninpo students, but also judo and brazilian jujutsu students.

don't kid yourself, you'll probably be beaten very easily for a while when you go up against someone more familiar with that kind of thing, if you aren't already. but eventually you'll find out what works and you can take it from there.

there are a few basic rules:

stamina is very important,
nothing is as simple as it seems on the ground but the simpler you can make it the better,
leg locks are dangerous,
chokes even more dangerous,
it's better your opponent is on the ground and you're still standing up.

[entwidumala]

My teacher has always told me that ninjutsu is ninjutsu standing up, sitting down, lying down, in the water, on land, etc.

How to do something most efficiently, safely, quickly, powerfully, etc.

Randori is one way to discover whether or not the methods you have trained in are effective. Another way would be to get into a fight which has the probability of severe injury if any mistakes are made on your part.

[k4013b]

Randori is one way to discover whether or not the methods you have trained in are effective. Another way would be to get into a fight which has the probability of severe injury if any mistakes are made on your part.

Yeah definitely. My friends and I usually train together once a month to test eachother. My one friend has done Scholastic wrestling for about 5 years, so I enjoy wrestling him. I was looking at one technique in BJJ called "the kimura" and it looked easy so I tried it on him. Turned out it proved to effective. I definitely am going to test locks from Taijutsu on him, see if they will work.

[drizzt777]

We're fininshing up at class on newaza techniques, and using Shinden Fudo Ryu techniques as they can be applied on the ground. So yes, Taijutsu has newaza.

[niten ninja]

Do you think standing techniques like onikudaki, omote gyaku, ura gyaku, etc. could be used on the ground in a fight?

I know onikudaki can work, I was taught a variation of it as an armlock in judo.

Or as one Tai chi teacher told me when I asked him what would happen if he was on bottom mound and someone was trying to ground and pound or put on a joint lock he said"I would use my chi to prject him off" after he said that I left :P

great story

don't kid yourself, you'll probably be beaten very easily for a while when you go up against someone more familiar with that kind of thing, if you aren't already. but eventually you'll find out what works and you can take it from there.

Paradoxbox's post was all good but this piece of advice is particularly good I think. Once you understand the basics of that style of randori there's a surprising amount of cross over I've found.

[ElfTengu]

They all work on the ground, some even better than standing, but you would be more likely to use them as breaks/dislocations than locks to avoid getting a ribfull of boot from a bystander.

But that's what it's all about really, not just getting someone to say ouch.

[k4013b]

I know onikudaki can work, I was taught a variation of it as an armlock in judo.

Yes, I think it is called ude garami. It is also a technique in Ninjutsu.

[shinbushi]

Also The Key Lock or Americana in BJJ is an ura Onikudaki.

[DWeidman]

My teacher has always told me that ninjutsu is ninjutsu standing up, sitting down, lying down, in the water, on land, etc.

That is so true. If you can poison him quickly -- that may be doable from the bottom as well.

Bleh.

Try it. Let us know when your delusions are gone.

-Daniel Weidman
Bujinkan TenChiJin Guy...