Need help buying a sword

[Mr. T.]

My interest in MA started with an intro to knife fighting seminar that I saw when I was 11yo. Shortly after I started taking classes in Shotokan Karate. Money issues forced me to discontinue after less than a year. During which I met several people who where also interested in short blade combat and Historical Swordsmanship. They introduced me to the On Target fencing club who ran a Class at our local YMCA I was involved there for two years before they stop classes due to funding. I have taken classes in Tae Kwan Doe, Kickboxing, Modern Arnis, Small Circle Jujitsu, Tai Chi, Judo, Mantis Kung Fu, and Aikido over the past Seven years. Four years ago I started studying Ryukyu Kempo and Kyusho Jitsu Under Sensei Lynn Carper, Carl Gualt, and John Huffman, Though my job keeps me away from regular classes, I still study in anyway possible, Kata, Books, Vids, Seminars, contact with other Martial Artists, regular exercise, and regular meditation. All of my study has gone into making myself and those around me better fighters with no regard to style or origin

No Japanese sword arts my friend... Western fencing is a different thing. Please keep that in mind.

I will make no argument of the need for safe practice tools. I will however ask: If you need properly constructed swords to practice JSA, then why are you allowed to use Boken?

Are you kidding?????? I forgot, you have no idea what JSA is about. Simply said, bokken is used for partner kata and the "real sword" (iaito, shinken) for solo work and, if you ryu does it, tamishigiri. For sparring a shinai (not shinni). No heavy swords (suburi bokken excepted), extra light swords or padded sword thingies or other nonsense.

That's it, I'm going to bed.

[gendzwil]

My interest in MA started with an intro to knife fighting seminar that I saw when I was 11yo. Shortly after I started taking classes in Shotokan Karate. Money issues forced me to discontinue after less than a year. During which I met several people who where also interested in short blade combat and Historical Swordsmanship. They introduced me to the On Target fencing club who ran a Class at our local YMCA I was involved there for two years before they stop classes due to funding. I have taken classes in Tae Kwan Doe, Kickboxing, Modern Arnis, Small Circle Jujitsu, Tai Chi, Judo, Mantis Kung Fu, and Aikido over the past Seven years. Four years ago I started studying Ryukyu Kempo and Kyusho Jitsu Under Sensei Lynn Carper, Carl Gualt, and John Huffman, Though my job keeps me away from regular classes, I still study in anyway possible, Kata, Books, Vids, Seminars, contact with other Martial Artists, regular exercise, and regular meditation.

So you've never stuck with anything long enough to get past being a beginner. Yet you feel qualified to question people who have extensive experience.

[Kayden]

I never claimed JSA, only MA, and Sword experience. I have, with the exception of my first post, kept in mind that my experience lies elsewhere. My little practice and aplication with a Katana was given to me by my kyusho instructor who himself was not that well versed. So I have approced it from a Western way of thought.

Can an Iaito hold up to cutting drills? in somethings I have read they say not to use them, others seem to say it is fine. What do people actully do? What is a Suburi Bokken? and what is it used for?


Questioning people who have extensive experience is how beginners stop being beginners.

As for sticking with something, I have been studying fencing, swordplay, knife fighting, for 12years, just beacuse one can nolonger attend orginzed classes does not mean one gives up something. And I make no claim to qualifaction.


Time to keep trucking,

[Mr. T.]

Can an Iaito hold up to cutting drills? in somethings I have read they say not to use them, others seem to say it is fine. What do people actully do?

An iaito is used for iai. Iaito means sword for iai. It's usually made of an aluminium zinc alloy. It will chip and/or break on contact. So no cutting or sword to sword contact with an iaito.

What is a Suburi Bokken? and what is it used for?

A bokken for suburi I'm not kidding. This is wiki on suburi. It will do for now.

Questioning people who have extensive experience is how beginners stop being beginners.

I agree, but It's kind of annoying when a non JSA person tries to give advise on JSA matters. The usual advise is: Ask your sensei

As for sticking with something, I have been studying fencing, swordplay, knife fighting, for 12years...

I'm not going to bitch about this. I'm not in the mood, but this is not what we mean with sticking to something. Most of the senior JSA practitioners on this forum have sticked with the same ryu/style for 1 or (usually) more decades. So switching from fencing, "swordplay" (I hate that word) and knive fighting isn't sticking with it, from my point of few.

[gendzwil]

Questioning people who have extensive experience is how beginners stop being beginners.

No, doing what your sensei tells you is how beginners stop being beginners. Do a seach on "shu ha ri" for more information.

[Brian Owens]

...Questioning people who have extensive experience is how beginners stop being beginners.

Purhaps it's too fine a linguistic point, but I see a difference between "asking questions" and "questioning."

One seems like a search for knowledge, while the other seems more like a challenge. It's a subtle difference, I admit, and maybe I was reading more into your posts than you intended.

[Peter Pao]

Hi everyone, my first post here. I'm kind of in the market for an Iaito myself. I stumbled upon this shop:

http://www.budo-aoi.com/

At this point, I really have no idea what I want, or how much I want to spend, but I have ruled out any of the Hanwei/Paul Chen stuff, as well as the Museum Replicas. http://www.bogubag.com/ had some interesting stuff. For now, I guess I'm just doing a little research, and waiting for the go ahead from my sensei.

[Brian Owens]

Hi everyone, my first post here. I'm kind of in the market for an Iaito myself. I stumbled upon this shop:

http://www.budo-aoi.com/

...http://www.bogubag.com/ had some interesting stuff. For now, I guess I'm just doing a little research, and waiting for the go ahead from my sensei.

BoguBag is a good choice for me, because they're down here in the States; but for you, Aoi Budogu is a great choice because they're right in your neck of the woods in BC -- you'll save on shipping and possibly on tariffs and duty. They give prices in US dollars on their site, because of the relatively larger market here, but I bet their Canadian prices are more than competitive with buying mailorder from Japan.

Oh, almost forgot...Welcome to E-Budo!

[Devaldo]

Thank you for the help brian, what i decided to do is just to practice with the dojo's iaito and i bought a set bokkens so i will pratice with them and when my birthday rolls around and i have more money to speand on an iaito i will talk to my sensei.

Peace, Devon

[Kayden]

Purhaps it's too fine a linguistic point, but I see a difference between "asking questions" and "questioning."

One seems like a search for knowledge, while the other seems more like a challenge. It's a subtle difference, I admit, and maybe I was reading more into your posts than you intended.

I can see where in my posts one might think I was challenging your or other's statements, either by saying that they are wrong or by saying that I knew better, that was not my intent and I do apologize and will attempt to be more clear in the future. I do not know better than anyone and anything that I say comes from my experience and knowledge, which is not to say that I have all that much. I am young and I know it, I will always be honest about my experience. It is more likely that the miscommunication was on my part; not being one to try to express myself in written word on a constant basis by intention may have been skewed by lack of dictory skill.


Shu Ha Ri is a concept that is both familiar and foreign. The use that I am familiar with is how it applies here: ""Shu-ha-ri" literally means embracing the kata, diverging from the kata, and discarding the kata." Yukiyoshi Takamura, 1986

If one includes basic techniques with the word kata it makes a fair stab at how I have learned MA. One is shown, one applies, one uses. The usage that is foreign is that one starts as a beginner and they should just shut up and learn how to do something, then when they reach black belt they learn why they were doing it, then at higher level black belts you can learn how to use it.
I have always had Shu Ha Ri applied as necessary, we learned one Kata, did it well, memorized the movements then slowly the movements were explained to us, once we stated to learn what to use the movements for we were then encouraged to look for other things in the kata that we could use. Things that we were not shown but we reasoned out by ourselves. When it came time to learn our next kata the process started all over again. We also used the same concept in seminars: Show a technique, let them practice technique, explain why the technique works, then ask them to apply it to their own style.

The other issue that came up was that most of the articles which I read after being asked to do a search speak of Shu Ha Ri with regards to teaching one style only. Taking a student who knows nothing of what they are doing and bringing them to mastery through the course of years upon years. This is a concept that I would imagine worked very well when contact with other styles was very rare, where most of the populace of an area responded to a technique in the exact same way. However in the modern world I would think this to be implausible at best. To many different racial and sub-racial body types in the same area to sick to any one set of styles. If you find yourself up against a short little round dude who can take a hit all of your kickboxing styles aren't going to do you a whole lot of good. Where as a little bit of Judo or similar style could mean the difference between life and death. A rigid sense of Shu Ha Ri would not permit such a deviance from style in the earlier stages but the cyclical would.

Let me know what you think,

[Kayden]

I'm not going to bitch about this. I'm not in the mood, but this is not what we mean with sticking to something. Most of the senior JSA practitioners on this forum have sticked with the same ryu/style for 1 or (usually) more decades. So switching from fencing, "swordplay" (I hate that word) and knive fighting isn't sticking with it, from my point of few.

Just out of curiostity:
Why do you hate the word "Swordplay"?
What word would you prefer and why?

I am always interested in why people like certain words over others.

Also, I did not "switch" from one thing to another. I added other styles into my training. Some people are content studying one art form, I am not one of them. I never stop studying a style unless I find a simialr style that works better. IE the switch from Shotokan Karate to Ryukyu Kempo.

Have a good night:

[Brian Owens]

Just out of curiostity:
Why do you hate the word "Swordplay"?
What word would you prefer and why?

I can't speak for Mr. T, but in my case it's because I consider the practice of Japanese swordsmanship to be a serious endevour, not a game. I don't "play" with swords, I practice with them, I study them, I train with them.

The English word I use, rather than "swordplay" is "swordsmanship." (Or, I'll use the Japanese "kenjutsu," and if asked will elaborate on that term.)

HTH.