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Thread: MJER Instuctors being sued!

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down MJER Instuctors being sued!

    Hi Gang,

    Has anyone ever run into this before? I just returned from a teaching tour in Argentina and when I got home I discovered that one of my representatives in Argentina is being sued by another instructor there for advertising that I was going there to teach Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu. According to the lawsuit, this other gentleman (he has no rank in MJERI) has claimed to have the sole rights to the name "Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu" as a service mark in Argentina. This gentleman is also a kendo renmei representative according to him. The lawsuit filed has requested a payment of $50,000.00 Argentina. I wonder if his MJERI teacher in Japan knows about this? I have literally traveled around the world teaching MJERI and I have never encountered anything like this before.

    Any comments or thoughts? He is a member of another MJER group from Japan according to his advertising....

    Looking forward to your thoughts...

    Regards,

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    Hello Mr. Long ! I am sorry to hear this, However, due to the fact that there is a case pending. I strongly adviced that you seek legal counsel for advice, as anything you may say here could be detrimental to your defense.

    Sorry to so blunt and cold.
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

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    They've copyrighted & trademarked stranger things, Carl.

    At least he doesn't appear to be trying to claim rights to MJER worldwide.... But I think the term "prior usage" may come into play somewhere around here.
    Ken Goldstein
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    Judo Kodansha/MJER Iaido Kodansha/Jodo Oku-iri
    Fencing Master/NRA Instructor

    "A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it'll annoy enough people to be worth the effort."

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    Default RE: P Loeffler

    Sorry if I mislead you Mr. Loeffler. I am not named in the suit filed as one of the defendants. Thanks for the advice and concern though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Long
    Sorry if I mislead you Mr. Loeffler. I am not named in the suit filed as one of the defendants. Thanks for the advice and concern though...

    Gotcha ! Just looking out that's all. Thanks for the clarification !
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

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    just as a matter of curiosity... Is he claiming the name for iai, or for say washing up liquid or something???
    I'd better get a claim in for worldwide rights quick!!! It could be the way to go for Mcdojos! What a brand name! Can you imagine how much that sign would cost in burger bar size letters????
    Tim Hamilton

    Why are you reading this instead of being out training? No excuses accepted...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chidokan
    just as a matter of curiosity... Is he claiming the name for iai, or for say washing up liquid or something???
    I'd better get a claim in for worldwide rights quick!!! It could be the way to go for Mcdojos! What a brand name! Can you imagine how much that sign would cost in burger bar size letters????
    Hi Tim,

    That's a very good question. I wonder if he has applied for a service mark for "Kendo" or "Iaido" in Argentina as well. I just can't imagine the powers that be in the kendo world or his Iaijutsu Soke in Japan would let a guy like this get away with such a thing. It sure doesn't look very good for what they profess to teach. I know that his MJERI instructor in Japan is being contacted to see if he has his support regarding such things. I can't hardly imagine he does, considering that his alledged instructor travels worldwide trying to diseminate a Japanese cultural art form in countries other than Argentina. That could be a financial disaster for his teacher.

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    Thumbs down Suio Ryu / Niten Ichi Ryu Etc...

    Wow! It has come to my attention that this guy has also filed and feels he owns the trademarks of:

    Suio Ryu
    Niten Ichi Ryu
    Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu
    Komei Juku

    Good luck to any legitimate practitioners that plan to further good will in Argentina while teaching any of those arts. I'll bet Sekiguchi Sensei would love to know he can't teach or use the name of his own organization in Argentina without this guys permission! I'll bet he'll know soon!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Long
    Wow! It has come to my attention that this guy has also filed and feels he owns the trademarks of:

    Suio Ryu
    Niten Ichi Ryu
    Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaijutsu
    Komei Juku

    Good luck to any legitimate practitioners that plan to further good will in Argentina while teaching any of those arts. I'll bet Sekiguchi Sensei would love to know he can't teach or use the name of his own organization in Argentina without this guys permission! I'll bet he'll know soon!!
    As the present Soke already has intellectual copyright to HNIR he is already trying to trade mark something already taken.

    Even then he can call anything what the hell he likes but I doubt if he would be able to write the kanji for any of them!
    Hyakutake Colin

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    The issue probably comes down to international trade agreements and application of domestic law. What flies in Japan as intellectual property may not be valid in Argentina. Under Argentine law, the trademark may very well be valid.

    Take a look at some of the cases involving the big internationals like Coca-Cola. They have literal battalions of people just working on keeping their property rights protected in the legion markets around the world.

    Under Argentine law, a ryu may simply be en entity that can be trademarked. This guy just may be a very shrewed business man.

    Doesn’t match up with my view of what a ryu is, but I don’t sit on an Argentine court.

    Kevin Cantwell

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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Cantwell

    Under Argentine law, a ryu may simply be en entity that can be trademarked. This guy just may be a very shrewed business man.

    Doesn’t match up with my view of what a ryu is, but I don’t sit on an Argentine court.

    Kevin Cantwell
    I am pretty sure what you wrote is actually the case.

    Even if what this individual is doing is totally unnaceptable by our standards of tradition loyalty etc.... We have to understand that he registered this as a trademark for a product he sells so hey he was the first one to do it in Argentina so unless his Soke is willing to go to Argentina or Hire some lawyers to work on his behalf there is not much that can be done. So unless there was a big federation of Eishin Ryu just like the Kendo federation then there is not much that can be done to prove he is out of line. Anyway even if he was able to pull this one all it will do anyway is take all his credibilty away when this story gets public like with his name and all so to me battling this in court is pretty childish. They just need to tweak their name a bit to get them off their back and from there live on.
    Sebastien Cyr 義真
    春風館道場
    Shunpukan Dojo

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    I do not believe that his trademarking will hold in court if handled correctly. I would imagine that as soon as it is established that the arts existed long before the individual that he'll lose his trademarks. (Prior (usage | art) anyone?)
    Pat Massey

    Student of Shorin Ryu
    Student of Aikikai Aikido

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    Hopefully he'll lose a fortune. Serve him right. Does he also have the brand names for karate, judo and aikido? Those are the real money spinners and he's missed out! Shows what he knows about MA doesnt it.... or maybe he's had a 'visit' from karate people who object to this form of idiocy?
    Tim Hamilton

    Why are you reading this instead of being out training? No excuses accepted...

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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Cantwell
    The issue probably comes down to international trade agreements and application of domestic law. What flies in Japan as intellectual property may not be valid in Argentina. Under Argentine law, the trademark may very well be valid.

    Take a look at some of the cases involving the big internationals like Coca-Cola. They have literal battalions of people just working on keeping their property rights protected in the legion markets around the world.
    I don't know much about Coke's property rights battles, but if I had to take a guess, I would imagine that they center around people trying to get away with selling knock-off Coke merchandise in a country where Coke's intellectual property rights are vague. I wonder if they ever have to worry about a situation where some country's court says, "I'm sorry, you can't call yourselves Coca-Cola here in Elbonia, because Bubba Bubbavitch over there already trademarked that name."

    I'm wondering if perhaps an Argentine court would enforce this guy's property rights against, say, a guy who tried to start up a new club called MJER, but not against a foreigner who has been using the name for years (or centuries) prior to this guy's trademark.

    Also, what is the limit of trademarking? If I were to try to trademark or copyright the word "computer," the courts would laugh at me. How would they react if there was no prior trademark on the name "judo" and I tried to get one? Don't you have to show some degree of originality when applying for a trademark, demonstrate that, in some way, your use of the term is unique? I watched oral arguments for a case where a pet toy company had tried to trademark a phrase like "Play Thing" or something like that-- the government was trying to deny the trademark on the grounds that it was not unique enough to justify exclusive use.

    Then again, I heard a story a few years ago where there was this high school or college basketball star who had a really cool nickname. One of his classmates realized that the guy was likely to go pro and copyrighted the nickname, figuring that he would be able to get a cut of a potentially lucrative merchandising market. If I remember the story correctly, the courts were upholding his rights to the copyright at the expense of the player, so the franchise just wasn't using that nickname in any of their promotions.
    David Sims

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    don't know much about Coke's property rights battles, but if I had to take a guess, I would imagine that they center around people trying to get away with selling knock-off Coke merchandise in a country where Coke's intellectual property rights are vague. I wonder if they ever have to worry about a situation where some country's court says, "I'm sorry, you can't call yourselves Coca-Cola here in Elbonia, because Bubba Bubbavitch over there already trademarked that name."
    This has happened with the name "Fanta" here in Israel. Apparaently, long before anyone knew Coca-Cola gave this name to the orange dring, someone else had a trade mark on the name in a related field. Thus, the orange cola dring was known in Israel under the name "Kinly" for many years, until "cola" finally bought the trademark "Fanta" only a couple of years ago.

    I am not a lwwyer nor a legal expert, but from my understanding, Prior Usage in another country is not always an immidiatly sufficient claim. The local user of the trade-mark will only be thrown away if you prove he intentionally took a name used by others in orther of gaining money. Even then, in some cases (seee internet domains), even that is not sufficient.



    Amir
    Amir Krause

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