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Thread: Questions on Hakko-ryu

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    Default Questions on Hakko Ryu

    Hey everybody,

    I have a couple of questions on Hakko Ryu and was wondering if anyone out there might have a couple of answers to go with them:

    First, I would like to know whether or not the system involves the use of any weapons as its founder seems have have been well versed in a number of tool-based systems.

    Also I would like to know to what extent, if any nerve-pinching or cavity pressing plays a part in the system's approach to combat. For that matter how large a part do atemi (including kicks), chokes, or submission (floor) grappling play?

    Finally, I would like to know something about the art's history here in the states. The "official" webiste seems rather down on the idea of people training outside of hombu auspices, yet Hakko Ryu seems to have had a large impact on the development of the arts here. I am particularly interested in Jun Saito, Albert Church, Naraki Hara and D. Palumbo. If there are any other notable figures, students etc. that I should know about, I'd be happy to learn about someone new.


    Thanks in advance,

    Bryan
    Bryan K. Mason

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    Mr. Mason,

    I moved your thread from the AJJ forum to the Jujutsu forum. You'll get more educated responses here about jujutsu arts like Hakko-ryu. I for one have seen very little of it. Also, you might do a search of this forum about Hakko-ryu, because in addition to the other 2 or 3 threads I've moved here, I believe there has already been extensive discussions here about this art.

    Regards,
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

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    Quote Originally Posted by TakeuchiMonjin
    Hey everybody,

    I have a couple of questions on Hakko Ryu and was wondering if anyone out there might have a couple of answers to go with them:

    First, I would like to know whether or not the system involves the use of any weapons as its founder seems have have been well versed in a number of tool-based systems.
    The version of Hakko-ryu that I am practicing is not the mainline, so it may differs with what others are practicing. YMMV.

    But we do have defenses using the walking cane, umbrella, and some other weapons.

    Also I would like to know to what extent, if any nerve-pinching or cavity pressing plays a part in the system's approach to combat. For that matter how large a part do atemi (including kicks), chokes, or submission (floor) grappling play?
    well, light striking and finger pressure to vital points are used a lot in executions of techniques. We even have techniques of pressing vital points using the big toe. Submission as in locking the elbow joint, wrist joint, fingers, using the lapels to press into vital points on the neck etc are present, but not executed like the ones in Brazilian Jiujitsu or Judo. At least not in the Katas that I have learned (I have learned only up to the Shihan-gi).

    Much of the Katas that I have learned looks rather similar (but has its own differences) with some Katas from Daito-ryu.

    Finally, I would like to know something about the art's history here in the states. The "official" webiste seems rather down on the idea of people training outside of hombu auspices, yet Hakko Ryu seems to have had a large impact on the development of the arts here. I am particularly interested in Jun Saito, Albert Church, Naraki Hara and D. Palumbo. If there are any other notable figures, students etc. that I should know about, I'd be happy to learn about someone new.


    Thanks in advance,

    Bryan
    You can read some info about Mr. Irie Yasuhiro and my teacher (Mr. Roy Hobbs) here www.dentokanhombu.com

    Both were shihans of Hakko-ryu who quit the Hombu to establish their own style.
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

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    Brian - I will help where I can. I studied with the DePasquales in the 70's.

    Michael DePasquale Sr. (Mr. D)was a student of Jun Saito. He Lived in Bergen County NJ and was a very well known martial artist in the NY area. His son Mike Jr. now operates a dojo in Rivervale NJ, called Yoshitsune Dojo. There was a political fall out at some point with Mr. D and Japan, and once Jun died, he went out on his own. They currently still teach the traditional Hakko Ryu style but have added more 'street oriented' techniques. From what I can tell, mostly formalizing some of the variations of the kata taught in the syste,

    Mr. D taught pressure points, ground work, the walking stick, the yawara, and occassionally the use of a curved cane.

    I will tell you that he was an ubelievable martial artist, and even finer man.

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    First, I would like to know whether or not the system involves the use of any weapons as its founder seems have have been well versed in a number of tool-based systems.

    In hakkoryu we learn the proper and safe use of sword,knife and staff among others,but the real focus is the unarmed defense against these attacks.

    Also I would like to know to what extent, if any nerve-pinching or cavity pressing plays a part in the system's approach to combat. For that matter how large a part do atemi (including kicks), chokes, or submission (floor) grappling play?

    Pressure points play a large roll, more so at the higher dan levels. We utilize atemi as well targeting specific meridians. Non injurious but exceedingly painful submissions threw join folding is our bead and butter. Floor grappling in not a very large part at all other than defense against those styles. The encounter should be decided before it reaches the floor when preforming hakkoryu properly.

    Finally, I would like to know something about the art's history here in the states. The "official" webiste seems rather down on the idea of people training outside of hombu auspices, yet Hakko Ryu seems to have had a large impact on the development of the arts here. I am particularly interested in Jun Saito, Albert Church, Naraki Hara and D. Palumbo. If there are any other notable figures, students etc. that I should know about, I'd be happy to learn about someone new.

    I was fortunate enough to find one of only a handful of American dojo that maintain there hombu affiliation. Sensei Schechter now has a dojo in Crestone co. and Denver co. Sensei Reinhart has one in Phoenix az. and certainly Sensei Murakami American Shibu in Honolulu hi. These are the only American dojo that I know of in good standing with the hombu.



    Thanks in advance,

    Bryan[/QUOTE]

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    Michael DePasquale Sr. did have a connection to Hombu Dojo of Hakko-Ryu, but in the transition to a new head of the school (maybe th epresent one) there was a split. This was preceeded by naming D. Palumbo as the successor to the system.

    I no longer practice in NJ, but one of there shodan's now lives here in Atlanta, and he and I occassionally practice. Traditional Hakko-ryu is still taught - along with a 'customized' 'personalized' or 'street' version of the entire system.

    In short I will tell you Mr. DePasquale Sr. was 'the man' in Hakkoryu (US)before the split. His son has spent his life studying with his father and most if not all of the significant martial artisits on the East Coast. If you have a chance to study with them, you will see Hakkoryu....and more.

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    There were others that date back to the 1950's. Take a look at this page http://www.robertg.com/hakkoryu.htm
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

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    FYI. I believe that one of Mr. DePasquale's former students has continued to stay affiliated with Hakkoryu Hombu Dojo. His name is Joe Miller, I believe he has Shihan rank and lives in California.

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    Mr. D considered Jun Saito his teacher, and a picture of the two of them together was hung in the dojo dating back to at least 1973. I believe Jun actually taught in the (old) dojo in NJ, but it was before my time.

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    Mr. Myler,

    There are some additional shime waza (chokes) and atemi taught at the higher levels of Hakko-ryu (Shihan and Kaiden) but this is not extensive. Also, there is no newaza (groundwork) taught within the formal curriculum of Hakko-ryu.

    There are some weapons retention techniques taught at the Shihan and Kaiden levels. Instruction is not extensive, but can be built upon through Oyo Waza. Weapons taught include the fan (sensu/tessen), umbrella (kasa), walking stick (tsue or tanjo) and sword. There is also one technique using a scroll (hosho).

    Shodai soke is said to have studied several koryu, but honestly, I don’t see any major influence on Hakko-ryu beyond Daito-ryu.

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    I have seen it mentioned once that Shodai soke studied Takeuchi ryu at one point, but I read this in a personal document, not a credible souce. I'm not sure if there is any evidence for it.

    Is there any reliable sources of which schools other than Daito ryu were studied by Shodai soke?
    ____________________________
    Graham Pluck

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    Graham,

    I've heard various things, but honestly, I don't think Shodai Soke studied any other arts beyond Daito-ryu to any significant degree.

    I have heard he studied mostly weapons arts, such as Hasegawa Koryu Iai, Sojutsu, Kyujutsu, etc. He likely had some experience with Kendo and-or Judo as well during his youth, but his primary instruction was in Daito-ryu.

    If Shodai Soke held any significant rank or licensure in arts other than Daito-ryu, I suspect he would have made this public.

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    Default Hakko-ryu Q&A

    Hello, I am a student of Hakko-ryu, under an authorized Kaiden Shihan Sandaikichu in the USA. I have been reading many of the posts, and believe I can be of some assistance to those looking for accurate information about the fascinating art of Hakko-ryu Jujutsu.

    Sincerely

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    Lazn,

    One question about Hakko ryu curriculum. Are there more techniques taught than feature in the kata? I've read an interview with nidai soke in which he asserts there are thousands of techniques. But if you add up all the kata there are only probably less than 200.

    Also, is it true that only shodan techniques are taught before shodan grade, etc.
    ____________________________
    Graham Pluck

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