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Thread: Edge on Edge blocking - how to break a baaad habit

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    Default Edge on Edge blocking - how to break a baaad habit

    Ok, so basically I've been fighting with bokken since I was about ten. Hah, only in recent years have I learned that edge on edge blocking a la most movies is actually not that clever a thing to do.. trouble is, by the time I learned this I'd had about 8 years experience doing just that.

    Even when reminded by a teacher, several times, and my friend, to not block with the edge, I still forgot to turn the bokken.

    Any suggestions how to tackle this? My only thought so far is to get some stainless steel swords, and do some very slow one or two step kata, so that it's clear what's edge and what's the flat of the blade, coz the bokken are kinda rounded, and shinai are.. well, shinai.

    Of course I realise this could very easily result in injury, but I can't think of anything else right now. Don't be critical of that, please, it's just an idea, and I realise a foolish one, that's why I'm asking advice here.

    Thanks in advance, as always I'm very grateful.

    Dan
    Dan Gould

    Not yet rated (Rather comfy in the gi now, just waiting to look good in it)

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    Since it appears you would like to learn how to use and control a sword, you could try enrolling in a sword art. There are a number of training oppurtunities throughout the UK.
    Charles Mahan

    Iaido - Breaking down bad habits,
    and building new ones.

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    Aye, I went to a Jeninkan lesson with John, and intend to make a career of it, so to speak, but was hoping for some advice so I could practice it between classes, since the sooner I break the habit, the better.
    Dan Gould

    Not yet rated (Rather comfy in the gi now, just waiting to look good in it)

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    The best way to break bad habits is by replacing them with good habits through training.

    A qualified teacher in a legitimate sword art will start you off on basics and build upon this in adding new skill sets to the foundation over time.

    Learning proper grips, stances, cutting angles, etc. through repetition of kata has been the preferred method of training for centuries. It seems to work better than "self-teaching by swinging a sword around haphazardly."
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Best advice I can think of is to do whatever it is you do in class at home--repeatedly. Whatever kata or drills you have, go over them constantly. When you catch yourself doing something improperly, correct yourself. In the dojo, your improvements should start to show, and your teacher can start correcting you on new problems. The bad habit will break-- it just takes time and lots of repetition.
    David Sims

    "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." - Terry Pratchet

    My opinion is, in all likelihood, worth exactly what you are paying for it.

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    My main problem is the correct angle on kesa giri. Kiriage somehow works out better. Oh, and only on my right side :| I think. I think I should start filming myself again. I did that a lot in the summer last year and picked up some stuff I was doing sillyly wrong. Also spotted how close I came to hitting my head during one terrifying noto lol.

    I digress.

    I'll start classes again soon, hopefully it won't take as long as I fear to reverse it.
    Dan Gould

    Not yet rated (Rather comfy in the gi now, just waiting to look good in it)

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    Default Progression

    Dan

    I have put a lot of research and effort of studying one's own iai through the use of video footage and, this will sound bleedin' obvious but, the majority of errors are only symptoms of something much earlier and deeper.

    The idea of filming yourself is an excellent one but look at frames before the problem actually occurs and try to identify what the cause is rather than just bashing the effect. As I said, bloody obvious, but you will be amazed at how many people just try and fix the problem rather than working out what the cause of it is.

    If you have something deeply embedded then it would be better to find an alternative route to the correct technique somewhere within your preparatory movements.

    Hope that helps in some way.
    Andy Watson

    Minoru hodo
    Kobe o tareru
    Inaho ka na

    http://www.simenergy.co.uk

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    The Idea of one and two step kata using stainless crap is a good one except for the flying bits of steel that are likely to result. try going to the hardware store and picking up fence board. lay your bokken down and trace out the curve of the sword, handle and all then cut it out with a jigsaw or similar. Whitel to shape and smooth out the edges, wrap the handle in sports tape and don't hit to hard. If you want some added protection, (if you or your training partner can't control how hard to hit) wrap the "Blade" in tape as well, that way if it does break then nothing goes flying.

    I use these types of practice swords to teach myself to cut with the blade all the time. When I first started training I; like most people I have seen, was to often trying to cut or block with the side(in european styles both are bad) these crappy wooden swords broke me of the habit quick, as a bonus they are cheap. Also, try slow free form kata with a partner, fight like you are under water, as you get use to the movement speed it up. This is one of the best ways I have found to build familiarity with an ackward movement.
    Brian J. Balduff

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    The idea of filming yourself is an excellent one but look at frames before the problem actually occurs and try to identify what the cause is rather than just bashing the effect. As I said, bloody obvious, but you will be amazed at how many people just try and fix the problem rather than working out what the cause of it is.
    The problem with that approach Andy is that the gentleman does not have enough experience to have any idea what he's doing wrong, never mind how to fix it. It is a very good method of discovery given sufficient prior knowledge to look at the video and say "look at that, I didn't use my tanden at all there!" However, if you don't know what your tanden is, you have no way of knowing if you're using it correctly.
    Also, try slow free form kata with a partner, fight like you are under water, as you get use to the movement speed it up. This is one of the best ways I have found to build familiarity with an ackward movement.
    That's very interesting Brian. What Japanese sword art is it that you practice that uses "free form kata"? I've never heard of that before.
    Paul Smith
    "Always keep the sharp side and the pointy end between you and your opponent"

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgsmith
    That's very interesting Brian. What Japanese sword art is it that you practice that uses "free form kata"? I've never heard of that before.

    "Free form Kata" is a term I have picked up since coming here, I have heard (perhaps wrongly) it used to describe "Making up" a kata as you go out of the tecniques you already know.

    As I have said in the past I do not practice any JSA but study historical and modern fencing and swordsmanship. I have just enough experience with JSA to make myself sound stupid.
    Brian J. Balduff

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    You know this is a JSA forum right? There are other forums for western martial arts. Not trying to get rid of you or anything, just checking. If you're really new you might not be familiar with Swordforum.
    Charles Mahan

    Iaido - Breaking down bad habits,
    and building new ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayden
    "Free form Kata" is a term I have picked up since coming here, I have heard (perhaps wrongly) it used to describe "Making up" a kata as you go out of the tecniques you already know.
    I don't care much for that terminology, because making it up as you go along is the very anthithesis of what kata are -- the living "textbook" of a ryu.

    If it's freeform, it's not kata.

    I think a better term would be tachiawase or kumitachi, and should be reserved for advanced pracitioners; those in the ri stage of the shu-ha-ri spectrum.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens
    ...I think a better term would be tachiawase or kumitachi, and should be reserved for advanced pracitioners; those in the ri stage of the shu-ha-ri spectrum.
    BTW, I don't mean that kumitachi should be reserved for advanced practitioners (some arts intoroduce it fairly early on), I meant that breaking away from and changing the way we do the kata should be for advanced practitioners. Those of us in the early stages should stick to the kata as taught...over and over and over again.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Yes I know that this is a JSA forum, and though I have little formal training in JSA I still have an interest in it. Thank you for checking.

    As for the name of "Free form kata" it is also not something I would consider kata, but then I am also of the opinion that if you are doing it with someone else it is not kata. However the function of kata is to do put a series of movements in a sequence and transmit them from knowledge to muscle memory. If you use kata to that affect then their is no reason why kata couldn't be "Free Form".

    As for Shu-Ha-Ri, why would that be a break from kata? would it not fit better under the Ha therum? Diverging from the kata to find the application in a slow steady practice. Seeing how aspects of the kata fit with a partner and in a less controled environment.


    PS, The only referance to "tachiawase" I could find was "meeting at the tachiai" as in the giant circle that is used as a ring for sumo. . . HELP?
    Brian J. Balduff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayden
    ...I am also of the opinion that if you are doing it with someone else it is not kata.
    Then your "opinion" is in conflict with several centuries of training in Japan, where "kata" refers -- in most koryu -- to two-man, paired training. Solo kata are used in Iaido and Karate-do, but in kenjutsu, Judo, Jodo, etc. two- (or more) man kata are the norm. (Solo forms in those arts are sometimes not refered to as "kata" at all, but as "tandoku renshu."

    ...However the function of kata is to do put a series of movements in a sequence and transmit them from knowledge to muscle memory. If you use kata to that affect then their is no reason why kata couldn't be "Free Form".
    That is one purpose of kata, the most obvious one, but there are many others. Linking movements together willy nilly doesn't a kata make, but rather a waza combination.

    ...The only referance to "tachiawase" I could find was "meeting at the tachiai" as in the giant circle that is used as a ring for sumo. . . HELP?
    Tachi = sword
    Awase = meeting

    Tachi awase is one term for paired sets of exercises; less "formalized" than kata, sort of like ippon kumite in karate. (Jo awase is the Jodo counterpart.)

    HTH.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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