Likes Likes:  1
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Kuniba-Ha Shito-ryu & Goshindo

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Posts
    487
    Likes (received)
    2

    Default Kuniba-Ha Shito-ryu & Goshindo

    Hello E-Budo friends,

    I wonder, is there any old thread about the syllabus and techniques of Kuniba-Ha Shito-ryu Karate and Goshindo?

    I ask this because, I read somewhere in the Net that Kuniba sensei taught different things inside Japan and outside Japan. If I am not mistaken (my memory became foggy these days), the Kuniba-Ha inside Japan is more into the Karate aspect, with some self-defense (Goshindo) techniques, while the American students of Kuniba sensei were taught Goshin Budo Jujutsu, Mugai-ryu Iaido and more traditional Okinawan Weaponry in addition to Shito-ryu. I wonder if this is correct or not. Also, could anybody tell me more about the differences between the Goshin Budo as taught in USA and the Goshindo as taught in Japan.

    Many thanks!
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Essex, England, UK
    Posts
    223
    Likes (received)
    3

    Default

    Ben,
    This is my understanding of it, though I am prepared to be corrected.
    Goshin Budo was the name that Richard Baillargeon (who also held a 4th Dan in Ju Jitsu) choose to represent the Ju Jitsu taught within the National Ju Jitsu Union which was part of Seishin Kai Karate in the USA, at least according to the head instructors manual. Goshindo was meant to be the application of Karate techniques to self defence. I could probably get a more in depth answer for you, I will mention this thread to some one who may well be able to provide a much more detailed answer.

    Regards
    Chris Norman

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Posts
    487
    Likes (received)
    2

    Default

    Thank you for the info Chris san. I am waiting for other experts to share their information here. One of my teachers is also a Godan in Goshin Budo Jujutsu, when he come here to my country for another seminar I'll ask him to show some. He is in the USA. BTW, my Club name is also Goshinbudo Jujutsu Indonesia, but I never learned Kuniba-Ha Goshinbudo/Goshindo. It just a coincidence. THe main art taught in my Club are Wado-ryu Jujutsu Kenpo Karatedo and the Dentokan version of Hakko-ryu Jujutsu, along with many waza from modern (Gendai) Ju-Jitsu from USA.
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Essex, England, UK
    Posts
    223
    Likes (received)
    3

    Default Kuniba Ha Goshindo and Goshin Budo

    Hi Ben,
    This may shed more light on your original question: Dr. James Herndon's article (1989) “The birth of a new martial art" in Inside Karate, Vol. 10, No. 12, December 1989, pages 26-27:

    ' What Kuniba taught [as Goshindo?] in Japan was the bunkai that related to the drilling of clasical karate kata from Motobu Ha Shito Ryu which combined the Motobu ha Kempo and Mabuni ha Shito Ryu enriched to some extent by Shogo Kuniba's training in other arts' (1989:26).

    'Kuniba Ha Goshin Budo as taught in America was responsive to needs of audience and consisted of a combination of judo/ju jutsu and aikido in an unlimited array of self defence scenarios' (1989:27).

    It thus seem that what Shogo Kuniba did in his Goshin budo as taught in America was experiment with self defence scenarios using a combination of the various arts that he had learned and that Kuniba Ha Goshindo in Japan was working with and enriching the Bunkai of traditional Karate Kempo.

    Regards
    Chris Norman

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Posts
    487
    Likes (received)
    2

    Default

    Thank you Chris san for the information. I'd love to see some techniques of both Goshindo flavors, I hope Hobbs sensei will show some to me when he visit us.
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cottageville, SC
    Posts
    13
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    I have some friends that trained in Kuniba's Goshindo in the 80's and from what I know (which is limited), Mr. Kuniba used his understanding of Karate, Jujutsu and Aikido to form "kata" that taught these defense moves to people in the US in the 70's. He called it "Goshin Budo". He later honed it down to 5 kata and called it "Goshindo". There seems to be a distinct difference between the folks that learned the 70's Goshin Budo and the later 80's generation of Goshindo. I have been told that the earlier "Goshin Budo" seemed to be more "hard-line" Jujutsu / Karate Bunkai type training and the later "Goshindo" training was more "Aiki-like". I can't swear by all of this but this is what I have been told. Hope it helps.
    Darrell Collins
    Nippon Kobudo Rengokai

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Posts
    487
    Likes (received)
    2

    Default

    I used to own a book by Darrel Craig sensei, showing line drawings. He said the techniques is from "Junse Goshin Budo Jujutsu". Any similarities between techniques from that book with the Goshindo of Kuniba sensei?
    Ben Haryo (This guy has low IQ and uses a dialect which vaguely resembles Bad English).

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Sugarland, TX
    Posts
    2
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default

    Old thread, but interesting. I studied with Sensei Craig in the early 80's for 5 years, have a Nidan in Junse Goshin Budo Jujutsu, with the certificate from Seishinkai, with the certificate being recognized by Judo's Kodokan which granted a Judo Nidan certificate, as well as Nidan in USKF/AJKA Kendo/Iaido/Jodo, and Mugai-ryu iaido.

    As Craig learned these in the early 70's from Kuniba, they are definitely not hard karate (which I consider Goshindo from what I have seen). While most of the waza's in the katas are similar to techniques found elsewhere, some are unique or unique in application in kata. I will copy my notes here in the next post for historical, as I have not seen any "jujutsu" katas structured like these. There are 7 standing kata thru Nidan (stepping forward and backward like kendo katas, with uke attaching with overhead shuto shomen... these kata seem both from the attack and how the waza defense is applied would work great against a sword, and I have wondered at times if Craig learned them from Sensei Chiba (as Hokushin Itto-ryu has jujutsu, though never seen), and (3?) seating kata for sandan (which I never saw).
    Vernon Williams

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Sugarland, TX
    Posts
    2
    Likes (received)
    1

    Default Junse Goshin Budo Jujutsu kata

    These are the Junse Goshin Budo Jujutsu kata. I live in Houston, Texas, if someone wants to learn them / video them, so they don't vanish.

    Kata's begin with bow to sensei, bow to each other, uke takes right foot back and right hand overhead for a tegatame shomen (same for all kata's). Tori moves to a left jujutsu stance (except for seoi-uchi which is right jujutsu stance). Uke and tori take three steps each (a front sliding step, a step thru with the back foot, and another step thru) to end in the same stance as starting. Tori is responsible for maai (he is testing). Uke attacks shomen with "yaaa" kiai, and tori executes waza, zanshin, and back to center (on the opposite side of the mat). Uke raises to center, each take three steps back, and uke steps back with left hand and foot. Left side kata is performed. Then next kata (keeps flowing: right, left, right, left, ...), until complete. Then bow to each other, and bow to sensei.

    I don't have/never heard any offical names, but summary is:
    1) Kata-oshi (Shoulder push): as uke attacks, his shoulders rotate, you use this motion to attach the rear shoulder joint (if right hand shomen, left shoulder attacked), (the secret of the waza is) cork screwing down the shoulder as you push-thru/turn uke. If done correctly, if uke is attacking along North line, he will spin and fall NW.
    WAZA:
    As uke strikes shomen, you thrust forward with right hand and foot to uke's left shoulder, accenting the circular motion of uke's strike, which spins uke on his right foot. (Bunkai uses tori continues spiral push down as turn (can stomack to do an upper push against uke's stomack) to send spinning off of center.) Tori left hand catches uke's right buttocks and pulls up as tori archs left foot leftward 180° to rear (facing (SW)), both feet on tiptoes (tori bends right elbow as he pulls uke to him). Tori slides left hand to uke's front hip (right hand still on shoulder), and steps deeply forward (thru the middle of uke's legs) to and pushs on shoulder/hip to throw uke down (SW). Tori brings rear foot up to right jujutsu stance. Zanshin. Release and to center.

    2)Te-guruma (hand wheel): some styles call a similar waza tama-guruma (Judo). The main movement is to a knelling position with your upper body bent over, blocking both uke's knees, forcing a fall by itself (seen this waza in Aikido and others)... while you are catching only uke's attacking shomen hand with an upper blocking circle motion and executing a uki-otoshi motion with your throwing hand (and the fall fells like uki-otoshi, with uke's upper body never touching tori's). I have seen Aikido's Saito do a simlar motion. This is NOT kata-guruma. This throw is really dynamic and power with a very hard slamming fall when executed correctly.
    WAZA: As uke strikes shomen, you step across with your left foot, placing it in front of and perpendicular to uke's left foot as you do a circular (almost karate upper block) catch with your right hand, going to a right knee(ling) position (left shoulder on left chest) as you do a scooping motion with the left arm to bring it down and along your left side (forearm is parallel to ground to stop uke's right knee in the outside cradle of your left arm) to a closed fist past and braced against your right shin (to protect your face, looking (S)), and extending uke's circular strike motion out, down, and under to your left ear. Zanshin. Release and center.

    3) Uki-harai-hane-goshi+Ude-hishigi-hiza-gatame (hip sweep to armbar with knees): against a punch or shomen, you are going to drop them on the chin attack... an harai-hane-goshi, to a standing armbar with the knees.
    WAZA: As uke strikes shomen, you step across with your left foot, placing it in front of and perpendicular to uke's left foot, as you do a left palm thrust to uke's chin (bending uke back) and capture uke's left elbow (sleeve) with your right hand. Step deep in between uke's feet with you right foot (heel leading) and thrust with your left hip into uke's pelvis (causing uke to bend forward) as you clamp his back with your left hand and pull uke onto your torso. Sweep with your left thigh across uke's right as you turn to face (N) with feet together (as in bow), uke laying (E), with you holding uke's left wrist with both hands (uke arm straight up) and applying arm bar with knees with zanshin. Release and center.

    4) Tai-otoshi+Ude-hishigi-kata-gatame (armbar on shoulder, body-drop): You can use this against a punch or shomen. You are going to break the arm as you do a tai-otoshi. Very quick.
    WAZA: As uke strikes shomen, you step across with your left foot, placing it in front of and perpendicular to uke's left foot as you do a circular (almost karate upper block) catch with your right hand, sliding your right foot 180° arch to face (S) with right knee bent. This motion will place your right arm in a "L" shape with uke's arm in an armbar above yours, and both bodies in a judo tai-otoshi position. Apply pressure to the arm for break (uke pat) and then lift right knee for otoshi. While holding uke's hand, perform zanshin. Release and center.

    5) Ude-hishigi-tsuki-gatame-guruma+Ude-hishigi-juji-gatame (armbar wheel) This would be Craig's book Japan''s Ultimate Martial Art, Nage Waza, Tech # 10 Yoko Te Gatame page 70-71. This is a fairly common waza, but hard to find a name (karate Osae-hiji-otoshi, jujutsu Maki-gaeshi). Armbar with a sacrifice throw (like Sumi-gaeshi or Hiki-komi-gaeshi). We do randori like Aikido (with uke running at you with palm/arm extended towards you), and I had to stop this technique in mid execution as the uke will not make it over, but will drive his forehead into the ground and break his neck.
    WAZA: As uke strikes shomen, you step out (NW) with your left foot, and perform a pushing circular block going right-down-left with your left hand to your left hip and capturing the wristh, bringing the right foot up to rear (left jujutsu stance), using your right hand on the elbow to effect an armbar, lift up your right leg (knee to chest) and thrust above his arm and under his hip to effect an armbar using the leg. Moving the right hand to the wrist also, sit (butt to left heel) and roll back executing a wheel thru with uke's arm and your leg. Zanshin (on armbar across chest). (Bunkai twist during at end of wheel to apply ude-hishigi-juji-gatame.) Release and center.

    6) Ude-hishigi-ashi-gatame-guruma+Ude-hishigi-juji-gatame (armbar with leg wheel) This would be Craig's book Japan''s Ultimate Martial Art, Nage Waza, Tech # 9 Yoko Ashi Gatame page 70-71. This is like the above armbar wheel, but you use your leg instead to effect the armbar. I guess if I was a samura in full armor, and had to flip another armored samura, it would be useful.
    WAZA: As uke strikes shomen, you step out (NW) with your left foot, and perform a pushing circular block going right-down-left with your left hand to your left hip and capturing the wristh, bringing the right foot up to rear (left jujutsu stance), using your right hand on the elbow to effect an armbar, lift up your right leg (knee to chest) and thrust above his arm and under his hip to effect an armbar using the leg. Moving the right hand to the wrist also, sit (butt to left heel) and roll back executing a wheel thru with uke's arm and your leg. Zanshin (on armbar across chest). (Bunkai twist during at end of wheel to apply ude-hishigi-juji-gatame.) Release and center.

    7) Waki-gatame-sutemi (armpit armbar sacrifice) This would be Craig's book Japan''s Ultimate Martial Art, Nage Waza, Tech # 6 Yoko Seoi Tomoe page 67 (I think the pictures and explanation are poor); you raise the arm up and roll uke's shoulder to get everything into position. Jujutsu Ude-hishigi-Waki-gatame (Aikido Ikkyo but using armpit on elbow) and let front leg slide outall the way to the group (like a reverse kesa-gatame position). Great technique, hard to resist, good for knife and gun at throat takeaways.
    WAZA:
    As uke strikes shomen, you slide in an arch with your left foot thru (E) to (SE) (never stopping foot - but continuing slide out (SE) all the way to laying on the ground), capturing uke's wrist in your right hand and uke's elbow in your left hand, rotating elbow to straight armbar, resting your body weight on uke's shoulder, as you extend uke's strike motion (SE) as you slide down, effecting a tripod with your to feet and uke's feet (single point), to laying down on you left back side with an armbar. Uke pats. Zanshin. Release and center.

    Hope it helps.
    Vernon Williams

  10. Likes Cady Goldfield liked this post

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •