bringing back atemi

[dewey]

Not to stir the metaphorical pot and/or post a rhetorical question here, but many would agree that atemi waza are often neglected in "modern" aikido (e.g. Aikikai and Ki "styles", both which are the only available "styles" in my area) for various reasons. For those of us (myself included) who don't see atemi waza regularly included in our training, what would you suggest we do in order to suppliment and/or round out our training? Look to other cross-training in TMA that emphasize striking techniques...or what? I'm looking for any and all contructive suggestions to this vexing question. We do have a Tenshin "style" dojo in my area, but I'd rather not go that route....

[P Goldsbury]

Not to stir the metaphorical pot and/or post a rhetorical question here, but many would agree that atemi waza are often neglected in "modern" aikido (e.g. Aikikai and Ki "styles", both which are the only available "styles" in my area) for various reasons. For those of us (myself included) who don't see atemi waza regularly included in our training, what would you suggest we do in order to suppliment and/or round out our training? Look to other cross-training in TMA that emphasize striking techniques...or what? I'm looking for any and all contructive suggestions to this vexing question. We do have a Tenshin "style" dojo in my area, but I'd rather not go that route....

Brian P Dewey

Mr Dewey,

Welcome to E-Budo. Please sign all your posts with your full name. You agreed to do this when you became a member. I have edited your post in accordance with the rule. (I know that your surname is your user name.)

[Amir]

Look to other cross-training in TMA that emphasize striking techniques

Look for a good teacher from whom you will benefit not only the Atemi techniques, but also an extention of your points of view. This may help you in a better understanding of Aikido.


Amir

[DDATFUS]

Ellis Amdur has some interesting suggestions for ways to incorporate atemi awareness into aikido training. His ideas can be found in a chapter of his book Dueling with O Sensei. Some chapters are available online, but I'm not sure if the one that focuses on atemi is; you might have to order the book (available at koryu.com or at Ellis's website, ellisamdur.com). For an aikidoka, it's not a bad book to have on the shelf anyway.

[dewey]

Mr Dewey,

Welcome to E-Budo. Please sign all your posts with your full name. You agreed to do this when you became a member. I have edited your post in accordance with the rule. (I know that your surname is your user name.)

Sorry about that! I was having trouble with my browser when making changes to my profile options. Should be corrected now.

[dewey]

Ellis Amdur has some interesting suggestions for ways to incorporate atemi awareness into aikido training. His ideas can be found in a chapter of his book Dueling with O Sensei. Some chapters are available online, but I'm not sure if the one that focuses on atemi is; you might have to order the book (available at koryu.com or at Ellis's website, ellisamdur.com). For an aikidoka, it's not a bad book to have on the shelf anyway.

I'll definitely have to check it out. I've read some of his blogs over at AikidoJournal...liked what I read. The more I hear(read) about his book, to more I am inclined to purchase it.

[SeiserL]

Did atemi leave?
How can you bring it back if it never left?
I hate it when things leave and I don't notice.
How long has it been gone?

IMHO, many of us just add to the way we train.

[Walker]

I would add my suggestion to read any and all materials from Ellis Amdur. I think his ideas about atemi are about as good as it can get if your dojo doesn't explore that aspect in it's practice.

The problem is that once the transmission is broken then you have lost it. If you try to add something "back in" really you are adding something new on to your aikido from outside sources rather than reviving anything. This can have consequences that are as likely to be negative as positive.

Your best bet is to search for a stream of aikido that has not lost the aspect you wish to explore.

[dewey]

I would add my suggestion to read any and all materials from Ellis Amdur. I think his ideas about atemi are about as good as it can get if your dojo doesn't explore that aspect in it's practice.

The problem is that once the transmission is broken then you have lost it. If you try to add something "back in" really you are adding something new on to your aikido from outside sources rather than reviving anything. This can have consequences that are as likely to be negative as positive.

Your best bet is to search for a stream of aikido that has not lost the aspect you wish to explore.

Yes, I know. The problem is, I can only work with what's available to me in regards to me situation (i.e. geographical location & the fact that I'm not financially independent enough to relocate to "greener pastures"). Although my sensei does "allude" to atemi waza, he really doesn't "teach" it. My only other option in regards to Aikido is a local Tenshin dojo. However, going to a Seagal school isn't on my list of things to do before I die....

Pehaps traditional karate (e.g. Shotokan or Goju)? What do you think?

[john_lord_b3]

The Yoshinkan school seems to have lots of atemi technique still in the formal syllabus. Other schools which taught formal atemi are Tomiki and Yoseikan.

I also have a couple of videos of Robert Liedke doing his Aikido, and it has some reasonable amount of atemi, including the very-effective palm heel to jaw push (ago oshi).

I wish I know what style of Aikido he taught.

[Flintstone]

Yoseikan has the Happoken (Hachi Ho Ken) as a kata of 8 basic strikes, and Keri Go Ho no Kata (some branches Keri Yon Ho no Kata, some even Keri Sanbon no Kata) as a kata of 5 basic kicks (or 4, or 3).

Roland Hernaez's Nihon Tai Jutsu (a derivative of Yoseikan Aikido) contains three solo atemi kata, and three paired atemi kata, plus the Empi no Kata (only elbows blows and blocks).

[Mike_Haft]

We're a ki-style, my teacher was here a week ago and spent two hours last Monday teaching us how to punch.

When roughly would you say did atemi leave the art exactly?

Mike Haft

[Mike_Haft]

Although my sensei does "allude" to atemi waza, he really doesn't "teach" it.

So what you're saying is that it's back to the time old advice of ask your sensei. Why don't you ask him how to do atemi? If one of my students asks me I try to answer (depends on what the lesson plan is for that evening but I do try to get round to it at some point).

I think you're probably assuming that atemi has left aikido because you haven't seen it very often in your own dojo. In which case this should be fairly easily remedied.

Regards

Mike

[Walker]

Sorry to be slow to respond Dewey. I don't have an answer for you. Unfortunately (or fortunately maybe) part of being a member of a dojo is embracing the teaching in that dojo. If there is a growing mismatch either you must move into accord or remove yourself. Changing the teaching of the dojo isn't really an option. Seminars are another venue to explore, but what you find there may or may not be acceptable in your dojo.

[Phil Farmer]

I am a Yoseikan Budo instructor so let me get that part of the atemi question out of the way. Minoru Sensei's Yoseikan did indeed have happo ken kata as an atemi kata and keri yon ho as the four basic kicks.

In the Yoseikan Budo of Hiroo Mochizuki there are five Happo Ken katas that are atemi focused and five Hasshaku ken katas that are primarily throw and joint lock focused but do have strikes involved.

Now, having said the above, I have experienced a lack of striking skills in most of the other aiki styles that I have visited over the years. I may not have visited the right ones or.....well I don't know why it has worked out that way but lacking or ineffective atemi has long been a criticism of aikido dojo everywhere. Maybe in the early days, because so many of the old teachers came from other arts and already knew how to strike, there was never an emphasis placed on the atemi. I don't know. I do know that using Aiki to deal with a good puncher or kicker can be a real challenge.