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Thread: Yagyu Shingan-ryu heiho / taijutsu

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcoRI
    .... In the Genbukan Taikai DVD he demonstrates Kacchu Yawara, but no jujutsu, torite etc.

    Do any of the main lines have weapons training up to Shoden Menkyo?

    I thought that grades in Sendai YSR could only be issued from Shimazu Sensei?
    Yawara and jujutsu are one and the same. Kacchu Yawara is essentially, Armored Jujutsu.

    Traditionally, shoden is not a license (menkyo). It is equivalent to shodan in modern terms, and indicates that a person has an understanding of the fundamentals, and can now begin serious training ("sho" literally means beginner).

    As far as awarding grades in the Sendai line of YSR, it should be stated that Shimazu Kenji is not the headmaster of the Sendai line. Hoshi sensei is. It is my understanding that any individual who has received menkyo kaiden may award grades. Of course, Shimazu sensei is one of them.

    Recognized teachers of Yagyu Shingan-ryu in Japan are all members of either the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai or Nihon Kobudo Kyokai. These are the only kobudo (koryu) associations recognized by the Japan Budo Association (Nippon Budokan).
    David Kawazu-Barber
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouch!
    Yawara and jujutsu are one and the same. Kacchu Yawara is essentially, Armored Jujutsu.

    Recognized teachers of Yagyu Shingan-ryu in Japan are all members of either the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai or Nihon Kobudo Kyokai. These are the only kobudo (koryu) associations recognized by the Japan Budo Association (Nippon Budokan).
    Thanks for that David,

    By Kacchu Yawara I was thinking of that nijuichi kajo on the Shimazu Sensei DVD. I thought the 'jujutsu' was seperate to the kacchu yawara. I guess thats my ignorance from using wikipedia as a source!!!

    Never the less, thanks for your input, you answered my question regarding the recognition of particular branches very well.

    Cheers.
    Gregory Davis

  3. #48
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    Default Nippon Budokan role in Kubudo?

    David wrote...

    "Recognized teachers of Yagyu Shingan-ryu in Japan are all members of either the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai or Nihon Kobudo Kyokai. These are the only kobudo (koryu) associations recognized by the Japan Budo Association (Nippon Budokan)."

    Sorry, I don't understand this.

    AFAIK neither the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai nor Nihon Kobudo Kyokai certify teachers. I'm more familiar with the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai, but it only registers ryuha; those ryuha and their teachers produce documentation that show them to be an historic ryuha. Only the ryuha leadership can certify anyone as a legit instructor in a given style, not those umbrella, cooperative organizations. I don't think either hand out certifications or titles to individuals. They are cooperative groups to promote kobudo; their main events are Kubudosai, or Ancient Martial Arts Festival exhibitions.

    Nippon Budokan does not translate as the Japan Budo Association. A more correct translation would be Japan Martial Arts Hall.

    As far as I know, the Nippon Budokan does not 'recognize' associations as such. Don't think the Budokan has the charter or expertise to recognize something as legitimate or not, but all the organizations housed there are blue chip martial arts outfits. It does house the admin offices of the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai, the All Japan Kendo Federation (Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei), the All Japan Rifle Bayonet Federation (Nihon Jukendo Renmei), amongst others.

    Budokan leadership helps tie a lot of things together, and the Budokan Foundation belongs to several different martial arts organizations, but recognizing one association or another is not a Budokan function as such as far as I know. I belong to a couple of those organizations; the Budokan Foundation cooperates with some, and its leadership leads others.

    Incidentally, IIRC, the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai is recognized by the Japanese Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology, which is a powerful endorsement.

    Cheers,

    Lance Gatling
    Tokyo, Japan
    Lance Gatling ガトリング
    Tokyo 東京

    Long as we're making up titles, call me 'The Duke of Earl'

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance Gatling
    Sorry, I don't understand this.
    Thank you Lance. I apologize if my remarks were misleading. Allow me to further clarify the point I was trying to get across. The Nihon Kobudo Shinkoukai 日本古武道振興会 and the Nihon Kobudo Kyoukai 日本古武道協会 grant membership only to legitimate ryu-ha and their practitioners, after inspection of historical documentation. Sorry, no fancy certificates or steak knives. There are schools who have failed to meet these standards and in an effort to prove themselves legitimate, they have formed their own associations. I therefore stress, that only the two organizations listed above are recognized both officially and by the Japanese koryu community as a whole.

    Regarding the definition of Nippon Budokan, I do read Japanese and know exactly what it means. The Japan Budo Association 日本武道協議会, translates as "Nippon Budo Kyogikai".

    The Kobudo Kyoukai and Shinkoukai are featured on the Budokan's website, and yes, the Budokan does house the admin offices as you mentioned. Every two years, Nippon Budokan / Japan Budo Association hosts the Nihon Kobudo Embutaikai. Only main-line, legitimate ryu-ha are invited to exhibit their arts.
    Last edited by ouch!; 21st October 2007 at 10:43.
    David Kawazu-Barber
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    Default additional info

    Thanks, I get the correction, and appreciate the expansion.
    Lance Gatling ガトリング
    Tokyo 東京

    Long as we're making up titles, call me 'The Duke of Earl'

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    Default Better late than never!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrei Arefiev View Post
    Are the observable "indications" of Shinkage-ryu in Yagyu Shingan-ryu due to the remote historical relation or to the fact that among the more recent generations there were some who trained in both? Or is it possible at all to know the answer to this?
    I realize this thread is more than a few years old, but I'll offer my 2 cents anyway. The late headmaster of Yagyu Shingan-ryu Taijutsu, Mutoh Masao, received Menkyo Kaiden in Owari Yagyu Shinkage-ryu from Ohtsubo Shihou. Over the past few decades, both styles have been practiced in unison and are considered to compliment each other. I can not answer your questions with any certainty, but it is unlikely, Mutoh, a regarded budo historian, would attempt to fuse the two together. The subtle similarities most likely existed long before Mutoh introduced cross-training.
    David Kawazu-Barber
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    Hello David,
    I hope all is well with yourself and training?

    Have you noticed many similarities in the sword training of Shingan Ryu and that you've seen in Shinkage Ryu?Since Shinkage Ryu is rather singular in many of it's kamae and techniques I was wondering what you make of the "join" between the two..

    It makes sense that someone who had studied the Shinkage Ryu would use that as a base for the Kenjutsu he added to his own ryuha, but I was wondering how far you think that went?

    It would be fun to check those kinds of things in my own art, but Takeuchi Ryu's Ken and the origins of it are rather less clear, perhaps being some form of family art passed down through the Minamoto...However, the similarities between what we do and what the schools that were formed after us do is rather incredible and I wanted to know what your own observations of that were..

    All the best.

    Ben Sharples
    Ben Sharples.
    智は知恵、仁は思いやり、勇は勇気と説いています。

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    Question Shinkage/Shingan Similarities

    Hi Ben,

    I'll send you a private message in response to your questions.
    David Kawazu-Barber
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    _______________________
    karsten helmholz
    bujinkan shinden dojo buchholz/hamburg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louvere View Post
    Hello Karsten,

    I'll be speaking with Philip Hinshelwood (Yagyu Shingan Ryu Heihojutsu - Australia) in the next few days, so I'll ask him and get back to you. He's a direct student of Shimazu Kenji. In the meantime have a look at
    www.yagyushinganryu.se

    Regards,

    Simon
    Simon Louis
    How is Phillip?

    I met him a long time ago after a Nihon Budokan demonstration with a few others.

    Nice fellow.

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    Default Yagyu Shingan Ryu Lineage Question

    Hi all,

    I have got the koryu research bug again and have been doing some historical research and I'm studying up on comprehensive sogo bujutsu and any their off-shoots. In regards to Yagyu Shingan Ryu I have heard that there are a few lines of YSR Heiho (Sendai line), having actually attended about 5 of Shimazu Kenji-sensei's seminars in Australia since 1993 to 2003. But I was wondering how many branches of the Edo line of YSR exist. Does anyone have any details of the current headmasters of same? I am aware that the taijutsu line differs technically from the Sendai line and was also wondering who formed the taijutsu/Edo line of YSR? Any pointers or links to same would be appreciated. Thank you.

    Ciao,
    Paul Steadman

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    Default Yagyu Shingan Ryu Lineage

    Hello Paul,

    The YSR Edo line appears to have diverted into four lines. All these Headmasters are Menkyo Kaiden in the Edo line.
    1. Ishikawa Yashiroji
    2. Fujisada Takeo
    3. Shimazu Kenji
    4. Kajisuka Yasushi
    It is not known if the lines of Ishikawa Yashiroji or Fujisada Takeo have been passed down.
    The Edo line of the Yagyu Shingan Ryu was founded by Koyama Samon when He left his home in Sendai and travelled to Edo.
    The Soke of their particular branch are for example Shimazu Kenji Yagyu Shingan Ryu 'Chikuosha' and Kajisuka Yasushi Yagyu Shingan Ryu 'Arakido'.

    Hope that helps with your question.

    Simon Louis.

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    This information provided by Simon appears accurate, as the lineage shown is the same information I was able to obtain.

    Only joining this forum a few months ago, this is some of the most interesting info I have seen.

    Thanks for the info Simon your knowledge of the YSR lineage is impressive

    Matt

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    Default Yagyu Shingan Ryu

    Greg,

    Sato Kinbei's name does not appear to be included in the Edo line YSR Taijutsu. Kacchu Yawara is a part of the YSR Heihojutsu syllabus. Kacchu mean armor (yoroi) as worn on the battlefield by warriors. Yawara is an alternative word for Jujutsu. Basically armoured grappling.

    Sato Kinbei's name is included in the YSR, known as Yagyu Shingan Ryu Heijutsu 'Daiwado'. It shows he passed his style onto Takeuchi Nobuyoshi.

    Regards,

    Simon

    Simon Louis

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    Greg,

    The late Sato Kimbei's school has a website . There is a list of students that the YSR Heijutsu was passed on to but no mention of a separate art called YSR Katchu Yawara or indeed Mr Tanemura. Clearly this does not mean that Mr Tanemura didn't study YSR under Sato Kimbei. I'd suggest you contact the website to get more information.

    Regards,

    Richard Dias

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