Gunji Koizumi

[BudoYama]

Hello all,

I was wondering if you could help me in a matter regarding Gunji Koizumi of Judo and Budokwai fame, specifically his jujutsu knowledge.
Koizumi is part of the lineage of the jujutsu I practice and it is known that he learnt Tenshin Shinyo Ryu jujutsu in Tokyo of Japan. It was this TSR knowledge that allowed Koizumi to quickly adapt to Judo after meeting Kano in 1920.

In my research I have seen no mention of Koizumi obtaining official licence to teach TSR which is common to most Koryu and so what he taught and what has been passed on through him to me can not be considered Koryu. However I wanted to know more of Koizumi's teachers and how it links back into the TSR lineage.

I read that Koizumi's teacher was Kichibe Uyenishi. I have read Uyenishi's son's book "The Textbook of Jujutsu as practiced in Japan by Sada Kazu Uyenishi" however there is no mention of his father's teachers.

Does anyone know of Uyenishi's teachers? Can anyone help me trace back to the TSR mainline lineage of where they taught with an official teaching licence issued by the head of the TSR school?

I thank you in advance,
Joe Adams

[johan smits]

Hi Joe,

Koizumi traveled quite a lot and learned more than just one style. I think he mentions some of it in his " my study of judo" (title from memory but I think he authored only one book).

best,

Johan Smits

[BudoYama]

Thanks for the reply Johan.

I have heard of the book you mentioned, however I have found it to be unavailable as it is out of print. Can anyone find otherwise?

However the point still remains that the 'majority' of what Koizumi taught was Tenshin Shinyo Ryu and he stated his links with this style in other writings. Furthermore, that is the part I am most interested in seeing as it affects me...

Thanks for the info though, I shall have another check for that book while I wait for another reply.

Joe Adams

[Robert Reinberger]

[...] I have heard of the book you mentioned, however I have found it to be unavailable as it is out of print. Can anyone find otherwise?[...]Joe Adams

Joe, the relevant part dealing with Koizumi's history is online here.

Best regards,
Robert

[Ree]

Dear Joe

If you look at the link provided he learnt TSR from Tago Nobushige,Tokyo 1900,however,I don't think he was licenced.To date I still do not know the lineage of the above.

What you have to remember that the name Tenjin Shinyo Ryu was mentioned a lot in the 1900's due to the link with Kano Shihan.

And the important thing of TSR is the tactic's of the kata,not just the techniques per se,this is due to the links of the kata in each level of TSR.

[BudoYama]

Robert thats a useful link! That was something I hadnt found before and it was very interesting.

Ree thanks for your reply. The information about Tago not being licensed was particularly interesting I shall try to research into him to see if I can find information on his teachers etc to continue my search.

My sensei's sensei (which is quite hard to say fast), trained with Koizumi at the Budokwai in Judo and Koizumi selected him to do a special jujutsu class and it was TSR that was being taught in those lessons. Koizumi also gave him a letter of introduction to the Kodokan in Japan as well as to top karate instructors in japan at that time. Whilst in Japan he studied different forms of jujutsu and weapons too. However this is all around the 1950's time and he has since passed away. Such information like Koizumi's teachers can easily be lost and since he had an impact on what I now practice felt it important to do some independent research on the matter.

If anyone has anymore information regarding this, it would be very much appreciated and I would be very grateful.

Thank you for your time,
Joe Adams

[Ree]

Dear Joe

You misunderstand me I didn't say Tago was not Licenced.However,my father seems to think that Koizumi was a Chudan.So if this is true I stand to be corrected.

Who was your Sensei's,Sensei?

So do you do TSR?

[Robert Reinberger]

However,my father seems to think that Koizumi was a Chudan

Excuse me, but if it concerns TSR, hasn't it to be Chuden? BTW, I've read the same assumption about Yukio Tani's possible TSR-rank somewhere.

Best regards,
Robert Reinberger

[Ree]

Robert

Chuden it is,excuse me.
I have heard the same about Mr Tani.

[BudoYama]

My sensei's sensei was a man by the name of Robert Lawrence.

He originally learnt Judo hence why he visited the Budokwai in London.
Apart from training with Koizumi he also trained with Kenshiro Abbe, Masutaro Otani and Tadashi Abbe in England.

As I mentioned he went to Japan training at the Kodokan and various other things such as karate and weapons which he continued when he went to places like Okinawa.


My sensei trained with Robert Lawrence privately for over 12 years in varying disciplines. Jujutsu is one of them and so I was trying to do some research into my own 'martial arts lineage'. I find such things interesting because without people like my sensei having learned from people like Robert Lawrence, my martial arts would be very different - i might not even practice the arts. So in a slight way Koizumi who lived all those years ago has had a big impact on my life if you understand me?

Such things are fascinating...

[Paul Steadman]

Hello,

Robert Reinberger said; ..........Excuse me, but if it concerns TSR, hasn't it to be Chuden?.......

I'm 99% sure it's chudan! Chuden is the middle set of Eishin-ryu suwari waza in MJER & SDMR iai.... among others!

Cheers,

[Joseph Svinth]

You might check the National Biography for Richard Bowen's article on Koizumi. Also check the Bowen Collection at Bath University.

I don't think Dickie had answers to the questions you're asking, but of course, research was ongoing, and that collection is the best single source of Budokwai history in existence.

[George Kohler]

Hello,

Robert Reinberger said; ..........Excuse me, but if it concerns TSR, hasn't it to be Chuden?.......

I'm 99% sure it's chudan! Chuden is the middle set of Eishin-ryu suwari waza in MJER & SDMR iai.... among others!

Cheers,

The confusion, I think, is that to get a "chuden" (intermediate level - kirigami menjo) you have to be trained in "chudan idori" and "chudan tachiai" kata.

Reference-
Skoss, M. 1997. Tenjin Shinyo-ryu Jujutsu. Koryu Bujutsu Classical Warrior Traditions of Japan, 1. Koryu Books.

[Robert Reinberger]

I'm 99% sure it's chudan! Chuden is the middle set of Eishin-ryu suwari waza in MJER & SDMR iai.... among others!

Hi Paul,

I think designations like shoden, chuden, okuden, hiden, kaiden etc. are used in several styles and arts. Regarding MJER, I'm sure that the terms mentioned above are not used generally, or at least not in all lines. AFAIK, Muso Shinden Ryu use "Shoden Omori Ryu", "Chuden Hasegawa Eishin Ryu" and so on, to distinguish one part from the other, while in the MJER the different parts of the curriclum are more often called "Seiza no bu", "Tatehiza no bu" and so on. However, the term "chuden" is certainly not unique to Muso Shinden Ryu or MJER (if it is used in the latter officially at all).

Best regards,
Robert Reinberger

[Steve Delaney]

The confusion, I think, is that to get a "chuden" (intermediate level - kirigami menjo) you have to be trained in "chudan idori" and "chudan tachiai" kata.

Reference-
Skoss, M. 1997. Tenjin Shinyo-ryu Jujutsu. Koryu Bujutsu Classical Warrior Traditions of Japan, 1. Koryu Books.

Spot on George.