Has Mas Oyama ever lost a fight?

**Moenstah** · 22nd June 2007, 08:48

First of all, I'd like to emphasize that it is not my intention to bash or discredit kyokushin karate in any way.

I'm just very curious if there is any documentation about Mas Oyama having ever lost a fight. The search function on this forum didn't yield any satisfying result, (or I've been searching poorly). After all; in the movie based on his life, Fighter in the Wind, Oyama did lose, but from whom? when?

If people like Cro Cop and Hoost lose, would Oyama be anything different?

Thank you guys!

**gwroy20** · 22nd June 2007, 09:34

Fighter in the Wind was based on a comic book which was extremely loosely based on the life of Mas Oyama.

There is no record of his having lost a fight that I am aware of.

-----
Roy Hubbard

**BudoYama** · 22nd June 2007, 09:36

Wado Ryu's Tatsuo Suzuki had a dojo in Japan. In his book he tells of a "Mr.O." who came into his dojo looking for a fight. Suzuki didnt think much of him and one of his 3rd Kyu students gave him a good kicking.

I know for a fact that "Mr.O." is Oyama because Suzuki mentioned this before in conversation before he published his book.
Apparently Oyama was so impressed with the 3rd Kyu he promised him that if he left Suzuki Sensei, Oyama would give the 3rd Kyu his black belt. Needless to say he stayed with Suzuki.

Joe Adams

**gwroy20** · 22nd June 2007, 10:03

I'd love to see some evidence of this.

**Garbach** · 22nd June 2007, 10:20

Originally Posted by gwroy20

I'd love to see some evidence of this.

Agreed. Some evidence please.

**BudoYama** · 22nd June 2007, 10:27

I'm afraid the only 'evidence' I can give is to direct you to Suzuki's book, which can be bought from the "store" section of the WIKF website.

Or you could of course ask him...

**gwroy20** · 22nd June 2007, 11:44

What's the name of the book? I'd like to know when it was published. I don't understand why Mr. Suzuki would not have made the identity of this "Mr. O" public.

Judging from your description, this event would have been sometime after Oyama's mountain training because it wasn't until after this point that he began to teach karate. I find it extremely suspect that a 3rd kyu or a 5th dan would have been able to do this at this time. I'm unable to believe that this feat was accomplished in front of witnesses and has to this day not ever been mentioned by anyone except for one man who 'mentioned' it to you.

**BudoYama** · 22nd June 2007, 13:19

The name of the book is "Suzuki: Fullness of Life in Karate" which can be found here:
http://www.wikfusa.com/Sales/sales.html

Why would Suzuki sensei need to lie? Not only would it go against what he stands for, but theres no need for it. The great thing about Suzuki is that he is 100% honest. If he says something then he knows it - mainly because he was there. Its not as though he does it for the reputation either is it? He's one of the greatest karate masters in the world. And its not to make him sound important either as he is not afraid of giving credit to someone. He gave a glowing report on a demonstration given by Sokaku Takeda saying he was one of the best martial artists he had ever seen and was completely amazed by his skill.
Suzuki also recounted an incident with a Mr.K who I wont name here. I think he kept the full name because although he wanted to tell the truth, he did not want to damage their reputation. The same with the Mr.K. Other incidents where he talks of people normally or says how good they are he gives their full name of course.

**Garbach** · 22nd June 2007, 14:32

Joe,

We have no desire to discredit or doubt Suzuki sensei’s ability’s or integrity. But the statement does raise some questions. In my humble opinion both sides of the story are colored by the background of the respondents, which can be considered as only natural. I for one would love to get my hands on some impartial evidence that would disprove or acknowledge the statement. Anyone else?

**BudoYama** · 22nd June 2007, 16:13

Thanks for the reply Garbach.

I too would love some 'hard' evidence. But in what form? I hardly expect a clip of the fight to appear on YouTube next week.

If it is a case who you believe, I for one am totally behind Suzuki Sensei. One of the greatest martial artists I have seen and as I have said he has no reason to lie.

Everyone else of course can form their own opinions a they will.

**CEB** · 22nd June 2007, 16:43

Has Mas Oyama ever won a fight? Just curious if there is documentated evidence of that also.

**trevorg** · 22nd June 2007, 16:46

Originally Posted by BudoYama

Wado Ryu's Tatsuo Suzuki had a dojo in Japan. In his book he tells of a "Mr.O." who came into his dojo looking for a fight. Suzuki didnt think much of him and one of his 3rd Kyu students gave him a good kicking.

I know for a fact that "Mr.O." is Oyama because Suzuki mentioned this before in conversation before he published his book.
Apparently Oyama was so impressed with the 3rd Kyu he promised him that if he left Suzuki Sensei, Oyama would give the 3rd Kyu his black belt. Needless to say he stayed with Suzuki.

Joe Adams

I really cant answer the main question but as I understand it Mas Oyama was born in 1923. T Suzuki was born in 1928. By 1940 Oyama was a 2nd dan and 3 years later was 4th dan.

T Suzuki apparently started karate at the YMCA under Mr Kimura in 1945 which would make him around 17 years of age when Oyama would have been 22.

The key question seems to be "when apparently did Oyama visit Suzuki's dojo?"

osu
Trevor

**johnst_nhb** · 22nd June 2007, 20:19

Originally Posted by CEB

Has Mas Oyama ever won a fight? Just curious if there is documentated evidence of that also.

Someone should just email Jon Bluming and ask. I am sure he would say if he knew....

**Paul Steadman** · 23rd June 2007, 01:16

Hi All,

I don't think any karate master has ever lost a fight :-p Just like all Korean taekwondo masters are 7 times undefeated world/international champions :-p BTW my favourite tail is of Old Man Hisataka (Kori) of Shorinji-ryu karate-do who had reputedly defeated Junzo Sasamori utilising his muto-dori skills against Sasamori who was aremd wth a shinai!

Cheers,

**Moenstah** · 23rd June 2007, 07:31

Originally Posted by Paul Steadman

Hi All,

I don't think any karate master has ever lost a fight :-p Just like all Korean taekwondo masters are 7 times undefeated world/international champions :-p BTW my favourite tail is of Old Man Hisataka (Kori) of Shorinji-ryu karate-do who had reputedly defeated Junzo Sasamori utilising his muto-dori skills against Sasamori who was aremd wth a shinai!

Cheers,

Paul,

You're absolutely right about the true karate masters, but I'm more interested in historical facts than in social dynamics ;-)

Thread: Has Mas Oyama ever lost a fight?

Thread Tools

Display

Has Mas Oyama ever lost a fight?

Tatsuo Suzuki Sensei

Posting Permissions