What would you do??

[DMcGowan]

To all:

I have a situation I would like some input. About three months ago, we tested & promoted three people to Shodan. Two of the people have continued to come to class, if anything, have become more active than before... they’re like sponges and can’t get enough. The other has not returned to class since the promotion. I hadn’t heard from him, no calls or e-mails.

A couple of weeks ago, I saw him in the parking lot of a grocery store. He was very cordial and said all was well. He’d been very busy, and he plans on returning, but still, no sign of him.

What bothers me most is before their test, I spent extra time with these three, coming in on nights off to work with them to make sure they shined. I wanted them to “wow” the board, and they did. I made myself available to them at anytime they had questions. After their test, I received Thank You notes form the two, and nothing from him. And now this.

I guess my question is, how would you handle this situation? Would you let him back in the dojo or not? Would you express your dissatisfaction with him? Etc.

I would like to sit down and talk with him, but I don’t feel it’s my place to make that move, maybe I’m wrong??

I just remember what achieving Black Belt was for me, and to this day, I understand what my instructor “shared” with me in order to achieve that goal, and I will be forever grateful to him, but it puzzles me that he doesn’t “get it”??

Anyway, I would like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks in advanced.

Darrin

[CEB]

I have seen this many times over the years. Many Shodans quit. They set Shodan as some sort of goal and once they achieve it they quit or take a break. He may come back. I think many times these are people who would have quit earlier but they find themselves close enough to a black belt grading they grind it out to Shodan.

Unless he has committed some sort of egregious act I would let him back in. Maybe he thinks he just needs a break. Maybe he is telling you the truth or at least thinks he is telling you the truth. Hard to say but I wouldn’t worry about it.

True Budo is a rarity. Nowhere else can I think of do we expect people to commit their lifetime to a ‘hobby’. Martial art practice to many is a hobby. But it is also seems common to have martial artist rank martial arts as the 3rd most important thing in their life after family, and profession. Not everyone is like us. Many people reside on the other side of the fence. If you pay rent then you may need these people too.

You may or may not want to require unpaid mat fees for months missed. Depends on your standard dojo policy or whether you actually want him back.

You have 2 out of 3 that made the grading transition and have kept themselves excited about practice. You did good.

[Fred27]

I had a talk with the local jujutsuka a few weeks ago and and they said the same thing. Seems like its almost universal that some people discontinue practice after getting their black belt.

[MikeWilliams]

I'd like to echo everything that Ed said. 2 out of 3 is a very good retention rate. Focus on those guys, and let the other one take a break if that's what they want.

You're always going to get student drop-out after grading milestones. In WJJF jujutsu it was at green-belt, then again at shodan. In BJJ it's blue belt and then again at purple.

In fact I hate to admit it, but I did the same thing - my WJJF club was dying on its arse, and I only stuck it out until I got my black belt. I had always sworn I wasn't going to be "one of those guys", but circumstances change...

[DDATFUS]

Maybe you should wait and see if he comes back at all. If he never comes back, problem solved. If he comes back and has renewed enthusiasm as a result of his break, then I'm sure that he will earn his way back into your good graces. If he comes back and lacks enthusiasm...well, I once read an interview in which a jodo instructor commented that he doesn't throw students out anymore, he just stops correcting them. When he has a student that he doesn't want around, he'll just nod and say, "Good, good. You're doing fine," and save his corrections and instructions for the other students. That seems to be a much more diplomatic way of handling things than directly expelling someone from the school.

[Mitch Saret]

If the only reason you would not consider letting him back in is that he took an indeterminate break that doesn't say much about the club, does it? Many people want to get the black belt and that's it. Many want to continue. After several years of training maybe he felt a break was needed, for him and perhaps to keep the home happy, who knows. You would be in a better position to figure that out.

My question fro you is this; why would you not want him back?

[don]

Forget whether he deserves to be back in the dojo. Isn't the real issue ingratitude?

Is the pertinent lesson, Don't expect thanks and be doubly delighted when you get it?

[Shitoryu Dude]

This exactly why the rank of Shodan-ho is used. My dojo doesn't hand out the official rank of Shodan until you've spent a year or two as a probationary black belt. I always see a fair number of people quit once they hit get their black belt. Some come back, most don't.

[dsomers]

I wonder if when a potential new student comes in, if this should be something you talk to them about. Just tell them, if one of their goals is to achieve black belt, then quit, that your Dojo isnt for them. I know personally, if I took a student from white belt to black belt, then they quit I would be hurt; but I have never done so. However, that's one reason I believe it's a good idea to get to know your students well, outside of class, as well.

[Woody]

I think there should be no strings attached at any grade. People have every right to train in any manner they see fit. That includes taking some time off if they think that is what's appropriate.

[Scott]

Teaching is a giving profession. If we are teaching for rewards, including gratitude, we are teaching for the wrong reason. Teaching is similar to being a parent, personal sacrifice is part of the deal. We learn and grow in the process of teaching as well and that is a return on our investment. Just as children need to leave the nest to continue their growth, so do students.

It is not that we can’t or shouldn’t appreciate any rewards received; it is just that we should not expect them.

I would not treat the new Shodan any differently; if he chooses to come back, good for him and you, if not, he received good training and instruction and you benefited as an instructor as well. His actions do not necessarily reflect negatively upon your teaching or the school. The modern world is complicated with many pulls on our time. The next time you see him just tell him you miss him and look forward to seeing him again sometime in the future.

Also, do not confuse not attending classes with not training, he may still be training.

[DMcGowan]

Thanks to everyone for the input. There are a lot of good thoughts and ideas here.

Please know it is not my intent to kick him out of the dojo, although I can certainly see where it may have sounded that way. My thought was this: I have always been told that you can’t just walk in and pick up where you left off. You must come in an talk to the Sensei and ask for permission to return. I, like some of you, also took “needed” breaks, but every time I did, I always talked to Sensei and gave him an estimated time back. This was out of courtesy. Even to this day, I call my Sensei to let him know when, where, and how long I will be gone on vacations or whatever. Even though we don’t see each other much, (distance separates us) we still talk on the phone, at minimum, once a week and I make an effort to go train with him whenever possible.

I totally agree with teaching being a giving profession. It is not my intent to receive thanks for doing something that I love to do. That was, again, more for example. I’m just trying to figure things out. After checking his attendance last night, I noticed that it wasn’t as good as the other two. So maybe you’re right, Ed, he was close enough to Shodan, he just wanted to stick it out. Maybe it was a goal?? I gues he can be the only one to answer that.

On a side note, I was talking to a physician a while back and subject of martial arts came up. He told me that he, his wife, and two kids all received their black belts (not sure what style?) and he was just, “glad it was over.” I couldn’t believe what I had heard. He asked me how long I had been doing it and I replied, “A long time”. He kept asking “How long?” so finally I told him, “A little over 26 years.” Much to his surprise, he said, “What could you possibly learn after you get your black belt that would want you to keep doing it that long?” I shrugged my shoulders and told him, “I guess I just like to teach”. I knew there wasn’t enough time to get into it.

Thanks again to all who posted. I certainly feel better about the whole situation and would welcome him back if he choose to come back. Hopefully he does.

Thanks.

Darrin

[Woody]

On a side note, I was talking to a physician a while back and subject of martial arts came up. He told me that he, his wife, and two kids all received their black belts (not sure what style?) and he was just, “glad it was over.” I couldn’t believe what I had heard. He asked me how long I had been doing it and I replied, “A long time”. He kept asking “How long?” so finally I told him, “A little over 26 years.” Much to his surprise, he said, “What could you possibly learn after you get your black belt that would want you to keep doing it that long?”

Kinda sounds like this guy and his family are mcdojo victims.

[Kchef]

If the only reason you would not consider letting him back in is that he took an indeterminate break that doesn't say much about the club, does it? Many people want to get the black belt and that's it. Many want to continue. After several years of training maybe he felt a break was needed, for him and perhaps to keep the home happy, who knows. You would be in a better position to figure that out.

My question fro you is this; why would you not want him back?

Well said.

It really sounds as if his taking a break hurt your feelings or ego. If his goal was to achieve his Shodan, then good for him. If he truly loves it he'll be back. If he doesn't and is burned out then I don't really see it as good thing to have him there. Complacency can become contagious.

The wording of your original post or question made it sound as if you deserve to get something back in return for your hard work. My comment would be it really isn’t about you. But even if it was, if you hard work paid off and he was able to pass his Shodan exam doesn’t that give you the thanks you deserve. If you are looking for more, then you should reevaluate your own goals. Maybe his were not as lofty as yours with regard to his Budo. Maybe there are some personal issues that have popped up at home that take precedent. Your first reaction is to kick him out? Wow! Maybe you should be calling him to see if everything is okay.



K. Allen

[trevorg]

Why is it that some people feel that this is some kind of issue to be addressed in a therapeutic sort of way. Trying to put a westernised spin on things and find explanations and deal with things transparently.

Its not. Its about someone who has given up for some reason or another when he is only a very short way along the path. So what if he wanted a break ? Let him have it, and if he doesnt come back then thats his loss. If he only wanted the glory of having a black belt, let him have it, but we all know this is just the beginning of learning so again its his loss.

It might as well have been swimming or rock climbing. If the student gives up without explanation please tell me what is the point of seeking out an answer. Is it to measure the weakness in our delivery, or some such similar pseudospeak crap ?

If he comes back then he should have an explanation (if he is inclined to give it) and when he does then in my book he has to start all over.

Thats my twopennorth for what its worth.

Osu
Trevor