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Thread: On regards to proper Obi etiquette

  1. #16
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    When living on Okinawa we wore our Judogi to and from the dojo and changed at home. No one gave us the slightest attention. The only other place after that was while at Bergstrom AFB, TX when the gym or dojo, was across the street from my shop, so I would wear it while working, then return to the gym and change after driving home. People didn’t care one way or the other what I wore – even out of USAF uniform. Back then Martial Arts in the USAF wasa commonplace and no one cared a twit what we wore to and from the dojo.

    At other places I would neatly folded up the Judogi and tie the obi around it like in the old days (prior to eh new days). In karate dojo we always neatly folded up our Judogi and tied the obi around it like in the old days Most of my fellow student couldn't afford a karategi nor a new obi, so we always neatly folded up our Judogi and tied the obi around it like in the old days -- so the would stink to high heaven the next day

    When visiting sensei visited my dojo they followed by my rules, no matter their rank, or they were politely invited to leave.

  2. #17
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    Jeff... thank you....a breath of fresh air...

    I am not a karateka, but....

    Early on in my career, I was standing up after taking a throw and set into re-tying my belt and fixing my uwagi. The instructor told me to quit #^$&@ing with my clothes and get a grip.

    It has alwasy been my impression that judo is much more casual than karate about this sort of thing. Never-the-less, the job of the obi is to keep the uwagi closed.

    Another instructor of mine, (a koryu guy,) was apporached once and asked what was the traditional wayfold a hakama. He threw his hakama into the corner and said something to the effect of, "the traiditional way, was to have your wife fold it."

    In summary, like Jeff and Joe pointed, who cares it is a piece of cloth. But, some folks get wraped up, (excuse the pun,) over silliness.

    Aaron Fields
    Seattle Jujutsu Club, Hatake Dojo
    www.seattle-jujutsu.org

  3. #18
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    Smile

    That's the problem with Dusty...he's a zoomie! :P

    But, I digress. We have to remember that belt for rank are a fairly new innovation. The belt was merely a way to keep the uwagi closed and perhaps, the pants up. I once saw a senior judoka explain to a group how it was only a piece of clothing, take off his belt, drop it to the floor, and kick it to the corner!

    It's kind of that myth we hear about never washing your white belt as you wash your knowledge away. HORSE HOCKEY! Your belt gets dirty you wash it! Your dogi gets dirty, you wash it!

    Your training partner appreciates good hygiene.
    With respect,

    Mitch Saret

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DustyMars
    Anyone who hides behind such tripe about belts toughing the ground is insecure and not worth his or her salt. Such BS belongs in tabloid magazines and not in a dojo. Obviously the so-called sensei who objects to such crap never practiced Martial arts.

    Jeff
    Agreed. There is so much ceremonial crap (edited to remove pun that Aaron already used!) around the obi that it is laughable. Go to Okinawa and see how they treat belts. Its a belt, nothing more, nothing less.

    When ceremony takes a front seat to reality, you are on a slippery slope.

    That being said, draping a belt around the neck is just a tad too "bad-ass" for my tastes.
    John R. Stebbins
    Seattle Kobukan
    Matsumura Kenpo
    seakobukan@matsumurakenpo.org
    http://www.matsumurakenpo.org

  5. #20
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    My problem is that being a yudansha since a teenager (47 years ago) all that ceremony stuff just doesn't impress me. When it is necessary, say when doing some kata or what not, or official stuff, then ceremony is okay with me. When I first taught Judo a bad habit of mine was yelling at the students too much. When I grew up and remembered my sensei and how they taught it became clear what they were trying to get across. My karate sensei would never speak much but would correct us by either showing our errors or then correcting them, or a gentle tug or push with his hands. I learned more form that than my first students learned from all the stupid yelling. Judoka tend to be noisy and maybe that is where I got the yelling from.

    I also learned that higher grade sensei were the least noisy. Several times when training at the Kodokan, Mifune sensei would come into our dojo room or on the main floor and would occasionally walk over to where we GI’s were and talk a bit. While our sensei was hachidan, and like our step father to many of us, Mifune was special in that he was one of the last 10th dans who was a direct student of Jigoro Kano and one of the most efficient Judoka we had ever witnessed. He was gracious and listened attentively when one of us had the nerve to speak. Like most of our sensei, he smiled a lot too. Our sensei was Kotani and the Kodokan awarded him 10th dan in 1984. Those people are very rare in Judo.

    So, from where I come from displaced ceremony is nothing more than people showing off or pure vanity. Don't get me wrong, my respect for anyone who practices any Martian Art is still high, but as I used to say to my kids -- I may love you but sometiems I don't care for what you do.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ewok
    Now the interesting bit is toilet etiquette - do you take the obi off, or just hike it up so you can get the pants loose?
    (I usually put it round my neck, but its usually depends on how much time I have, heh)
    I pull mine up to my chest and tuck the bottom flaps under it
    to get full access to my "Danger Zone".

    An old Shorinji-Kempo teacher once told me that my belt symbolized
    the weaaring of a Katana. Maybe that's where the Japanese and
    Okinawans differ. The sword is sacred to the Japanese. The Okinawan
    Bushi did not (as far as I know) identify himself in this way.

    Peace
    Ray Baldonade
    Chibana-ha Shorin-ryu

    "Love many, trust few and do wrong to none". Chan Yau-man

  7. #22
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    Although many people have already said it, here is my opinion:

    An obi is simply used for two reasons: to keep our gi and/or hakama (not in karate but in other arts) from falling apart during practice and to rank students in colors.

    If we agree that an obi is used for these two reaons only, than strict obi use rules should not be imposed by a school or teacher. However, if one trully beleives that the obi is essentially part of the martial uniform and it must be used with much respect, then maybe etiquette concerning the obi should be used.

    Finally, by personnal experience, the obi is NOT something to respect as much as one's weapons or spiritual items.

    Good day,
    Joel
    Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men.

  8. #23
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    The belt touches the ground everytime you get thrown, anyway...

    Here, in Japan, everything touches the ground. You fold your belt, gi, and hakama on the ground.

    But, wearing your belt around your neck would be a bit...rude. Nothing too bad, but you would seem like a rebel.

    If you are Japanese, you'd get yelled at.

    If you are a foreigner, nobody would say anything.

  9. #24
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    We always ask the kids; if we took off their belts would they lose there training? The answers was "No" of course. We treat our belts like other training gear for the most part.
    Personally, I take mine off, tie in a knot and throw it in my bin until I come in the next day. I've rarely worn it around my neck but only because I don't find it very comfortable most of the time. I have done it though. To us, it's just a belt and the mystique of having the Black Belt wore off after a month or so of having it. Truth be told, I'd prefer not having to wear one but I wear it for the tradition. And I don't wash it because I don't want it to shrink. lol (I've heard/seen horror stories)

    I would guess the biggest difference is in the way people train: Okinawan vs Japanese. The Japanese seem to be much more strict when it comes to things like that.
    Ryan Close

    Okinawa Kenpo Karate Kobudo

    International Karate Kobudo Federation

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ewok
    an obi is there to keep the pants up,
    Not to nit pick, but I am a bit moody.. The obi is not meant to keep any pants up nor to hold the uwagi together, its the drawstring in your pants and jacket that does.......

    The Obi was design by Kano to denote ranks amongst his senior pupils. Pure and simple !
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Loeffler
    Not to nit pick, but I am a bit moody.. The obi is not meant to keep any pants up nor to hold the uwagi together, its the drawstring in your pants and jacket that does.......

    The Obi was design by Kano to denote ranks amongst his senior pupils. Pure and simple !
    Not to nit pick, but suddenly I'm a bit moody. I don't have drawstrings on my uwagi, and the obi was not suddenly designed in the late 1800's
    Leon Appleby (Tokyo Ouji)
    半ばは自己の幸せを、半ばは他人の幸せを
    SK Blog at http://www.leonjp.com

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ewok
    Not to nit pick, but suddenly I'm a bit moody. I don't have drawstrings on my uwagi, and the obi was not suddenly designed in the late 1800's
    Guess that makes us both compulsive nit-pickers eh ?
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Loeffler
    Guess that makes us both compulsive nit-pickers eh ?
    At this rate I won't have any hair for the nits to be picked from
    Leon Appleby (Tokyo Ouji)
    半ばは自己の幸せを、半ばは他人の幸せを
    SK Blog at http://www.leonjp.com

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Loeffler
    Not to nit pick, but I am a bit moody.. The obi is not meant to keep any pants up nor to hold the uwagi together, its the drawstring in your pants and jacket that does.......

    The Obi was design by Kano to denote ranks amongst his senior pupils. Pure and simple !
    Ouf I must agree with Ewok there... Sorry Princy!
    Joel
    Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisenheim
    Ouf I must agree with Ewok there... Sorry Princy!
    Don't be , I swear I thought knew everything there is know about budo...
    Prince Loeffler
    Shugyokan Dojo

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