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Thread: Fake Dan Patches on Ebay

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElfTengu
    They're at it again on Ebay, and now some lady is selling kyu patches and stars that seem to based on the bad blobby kanji from 1980s Bujinkan Badges, put together by someone with no knowledge of brushstrokes or what the authentic symbol should be.

    Bring up the ones from Japan on Van Donk's webstore in one window:

    http://www.ninjutsu.com/store/produc...cat=105&page=1

    And then the ones knocked up by some Embroidery shop near Cambridge:

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BUJINKAN-NINJU...QQcmdZViewItem

    Very different I think you'll agree.

    Are we able to complain to Ebay about these??.
    Norman Smithers

    Marche ou Creve

    Bujinkan Kouryuu Dojo

    www.bujinkan-kouryuu.com

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormy
    Are we able to complain to Ebay about these??.
    I don't know Norm, the trouble is that I'm not sure whether the Bujinkan Symbol and/or gi badges are copyrighted ot trademarked.

    Lots of us who are in the Bujinkan like to personalise items for ourselves or fellow students with the Bujinkan symbol so copyrighting could also have a negative effect.

    I was once threatened with legal action by the Shorinji Kempo folks because I was printing Tshirts with the kanji for Shorinji Kempo on, amongst other martial arts. I hadn't realised that their name and kanji were legally protected and I did the right thing by apologising and discontinuing the item.

    But entrepeneurial Ebayers taking advantage of people who don't know better is inevitable although unpleasant.

    I could post a question on Ebay about the authenticity of the item but it is the seller who gets to choose whether the question (and answer) appears for all to see.

    All we can really do is warn people or as a teacher you can 'remove' them from gis where you see fake or inappropriate badges.
    Adam C R Hurley -
    I know nothing - Manuel, Fawlty Towers.

  3. #18
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    It only takes 15 seconds to file a complaint with Ebay on this item. I just did it. Just a few clicks and you are done. The more who do it, the better...
    John Lindsey

    Oderint, dum metuant-Let them hate, so long as they fear.

  4. #19
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    EVERYTHING is copyrighted.
    The thing is that the (c) or (r) symbol incorporates that the holder of this symbol has made the effort (and payed quite some money) to officialise the design/text/song/logo/...
    The effect of this, is that said person has official PROVE that he is the first one to have created that very idea.
    Oddly enough, this prove has to be given for EVERY country seperately.
    Hence: even if the Bujinkan log has been officially copyrighted in Japan, one cannot prosecute anyone in Britain or Romania or whatever for copying the item.

    A little thought: there are VERY well made "fake badges" that cost thrice the amount of money as if you'd buy the original one.
    The reason these badges are sold is clearly NOT because one thinks the originals are "waaay to expensive", but because the velcro "work around" is really, really, REALLY amateur crap.
    I honestly admit: I do not use the originals for that very reason and that reason only! Yet I HAVE an original one, because I don't want to undermine the Bujinkan in such ways.
    I look forward to the day that the originals might be washable. I immediately buy new sets and use them from that day forth.
    Until then, I won't!
    The only alternative for me is NOT to wear a badge. I will NOT use the velcro thingies. So I think it is still better to wear A badge, that shows that I am PROUD of being Bujinkan than no badge whatsoever as if I wouldn't care about "the Booj" or even as if I were ashamed of myself being part of it.
    BTW: there are dōgi with the "Bujin" kanji stitched on them directly. I doubt anyone ever makes problems over these or whatever which, Hatsumi sensei probably even the least of all.

    Maybe... just maybe one should start considering and discussing more important things than these.
    There are so many REAL topics, that his one is rather... off the road.
    It is important that one is a good person... not aggressive... no addict... trains honestly and intensly... holds up the good name of the Bujinkan (or maybe try to establish the good name of the Bujinkan if you think it already is bad)... pays the fees to Japan... trains under Hatsumi sensei and the Japanese shihan or at least takes at least as few steps inbetween as possible... one is honest to one's students and oneself and any other... one does not become a "martial merchant" but stays a "martial artist"... that one is not a "marial copier" but a "martial thinker"... (thanks to my former teacher for these last two wisdoms, by the way) etc.

    You want to crucify me for this? Really?
    Okay, go ahead. See if I really care.
    Or you could see this as it is: "not important at all". How does it influence your training, lessons, knowledge in any single way?
    It does not. There would be maybe a very eetsy bitsy tiny effect if I wouldn't have the real thing, as I would have deprived the Bujinkan organisation of some yen. This is not the case and thus one can REALLY hardly blame me for anything, can one?
    Achim Steigert
    Bujinkan Te-Nage Dōjō
    Bujinkan Budō Taijutsu
    Shodan - translated: beginners grade

  5. #20
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    Well said Achim. Can't disagree with any of that.

    I wonder what official thinking is on the bujin (and nin) embroidered gi?

    I also wonder if there is a dye-fixer on the market that would overcome all the problems with the old badges or if it would be acceptable to purchase an official badge and keep in in a cupboard or frame it so that Hombu is not ripped off but to wear a high quality copy on your gi to avoid that velcro effect every time someone goes for a nipple attack!

    (yes Norm, I haven't forgotten)
    Adam C R Hurley -
    I know nothing - Manuel, Fawlty Towers.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElfTengu View Post
    to avoid that velcro effect every time someone goes for a nipple attack!

    (yes Norm, I haven't forgotten)
    Aw, you just remember the good times!
    Norman Smithers

    Marche ou Creve

    Bujinkan Kouryuu Dojo

    www.bujinkan-kouryuu.com

  7. #22
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    Default Training Gear

    Back when I was with the Buj, those of us who trained constantly outside got our own badges done up simply to save some cash. One day in the rain/mud in BC and the 'official' kyu ones were absolutely destroyed, nevermind the washing machine. But we were all members of the Buj properly, and once we hit the Dan levels, it was no longer a major issue.

    Honestly guys, if the honbu supplies a crap product that self destructs except in an indoor environment, with velcro necessary, then it should just be accepted that people will come up with a more workable product. We weren't ripping off Hatsumi, and we wanted to be 'badged' and properly carded etc...but not by paying an endless amount of cash for bad gear.

    And really, if you want to make me happy, go after all the fraud teachers and bad 'official' teachers rather than the badges.
    Sincerely,
    Greg Carson

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