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Thread: I need some help organizing a dojo

  1. #1
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    Default I need some help organizing a dojo

    I need some hep or ideas of running a good dojo from the ground up, I tried in the past but failed, but this time I am determine to make it work. Can anybody come up with some ideas? As from who the classes need to run,paperwork, and prices. I can get an location that no problem, I just need some with the atmosphere of being a true school. Anything ideas will help me.

    Thanks!

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    First of all, you need to include your full name.

    Second, if you're approaching this effort by simply posting a question on a discussion forum -- as opposed to doing the proper and very considerable, personal research required to learn all you can about the project you're preparing to undertake -- I'm guessing this time around won't turn out all that differently than the last...

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    I know it isn't my business, but your attitude sucks for being a moderator. What is wrong with asking a simple question on the forum. How do you know he hasn't researched it yet and just looking for opinions. If you can't offer any advice maybe you should keep your comment to yourself. To the poster I can't help you any on the subject. hopefully someone besides this @55hole will reply soon.

  4. #4
    Mark Murray Guest

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    rogerclf1,

    Please sign your full name to each and every post. It's an E-Budo rule that you agreed to when you signed up.

    Also, a second rule is no stealth cursing. Please refrain from posting that.

    Thank you,
    Mark

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    Okay, where to start?

    I would assume someone preparing to start a dojo would have a great deal of experience in how a dojo should be run -- experience gained at the dojo of his own teacher, over the course of at least ten years. The first person to ask for advice is that same teacher. Maybe "tulsablackman" can't ask his teacher. Maybe they had a falling out. Maybe there is no teacher. Perhaps needing help with creating "the atmosphere of being (sic) a true school" is evidence of never having spent much time in one.

    Regardless of whether a dojo is run as a commercial enterprise, a non-profit organization, or even an informal club, the dojo should be operated professionally, meaning seriously, with great attention to detail. No evidence of attention to detail in a post riddled with spelling errors. Maybe English isn't "tulsablackman's" native language. If not, better work on that first before trying to operate a dojo.

    One of the most amazing aspects of modern life is the apparent sense of entitlement many people manifest. I'll bet most instructors on this forum have had the experience -- probably many times more than once -- of getting an e-mail from someone, out of the blue, asking for advice. The instructor, being a good guy at heart, takes considerable personal time to craft a detailed response and sends it back to the enquiring mind, post haste.

    And then never hears another word. Not even, "Hey, thanks!" Nothing. Like that enquiring mind was simply entitled to the instructor's time and attention.

    People even think they're entitled to opinions. Look at the thread posted by James Williams in response to some fellow with an opinion. Mr. Williams' essay addressing his perspectives on budo deserves to be framed. I've never had the pleasure of meeting the gentleman, but have friends who have, and by all accounts Mr. Williams exemplifies the lifelong student who then passes along something of great value to his own students, something gained at considerable personal cost in blood as well as treasure. And then some of the same fellows, thinking themselves somehow peers of Mr. Williams and therefore entitled to opinions, attack what he posted. Essentially, so far as I can tell, because they don't like what he said. That's deep.

    I could go on, but it's late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Wolfe View Post
    First of all, you need to include your full name.

    Second, if you're approaching this effort by simply posting a question on a discussion forum -- as opposed to doing the proper and very considerable, personal research required to learn all you can about the project you're preparing to undertake -- I'm guessing this time around won't turn out all that differently than the last...

    I think that's a pretty crummy response as well. Isn't e-budo supposed to be a fraternal gathering of martial artists who are both friendly and helpful to those who may be stuck ? After all, who in this world hasn't failed first time round ?

    Osu
    Trevor
    Trevor Gilbert
    ("If I had to select one quality, one personal characteristic that I regard as being most highly correlated with success, whatever the field, I would pick the trait of persistence. Determination. The will to endure to the end, to get knocked down seventy times and get up off the floor saying "Here goes number seventy-one" - Richard M. DeVos)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Wolfe View Post
    I could go on, but it's late.
    So it would seem.
    Ricky Wood

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    I'm violating one of my own rules, I usually don't respond to any poster who doesn't take the time and energy to follow the forum rules and post his name.

    But this is a valid question, even if he hasn't been back to the forum since asking. And I tend not to like the polarization going on for some reason so I'll stick the weenie back on the original poster to decide if this is helpful.

    Personally, I tend to agree with Robert. An ill worded and not well thought out request for advice is usually going to earn the ire or will be ignored by the very people who have the experience and advice he is seeking. But that's also a sign of who has been around the forums a long time and seen this same question numerous times, so you might want to look in the archives as well for more information.

    First, a dojo-school, if it's public, is a business. I suggest you do your homework on running a business and what it takes to promote one successfully. Start with the local Small Business Association and the Better Business Bureau. Both have lots of free resources as to starting and running a business. Just be prepared to spend about twice as much time as you think you need to for making this work.

    Two, read the Small Business Marketing Bible by David Frey, about how to promote a company cheaply.

    Three, Don't try to run a therapy in a dojo-school. It's about the training. If you feel the urge to help students who have issues, then do it outside the dojo on your own personal time and effort. Otherwise, you will most likely let one student ruin a whole dojo-school with their issues. Of course, you realize that by doing so you open yourself up to a whole can of worms that can arise from playing therapist. So, just don't go there is my recommendation.

    Four, Investigate the risks and the insurance needed for your dojo-school. That will be a major cost monthly and needs to be addressed before you open the doors to any student. Talk to a couple insurance agents, get quotes. Talk to a lawyer about what you can do to protect yourself legally.

    Five, Work on your teaching plans. Don't have one? Then make one. This will take a lot of time as well since you can't just make things up and expect people to get it. You have to work on your presentation methodology as well. Expect this to take about twice as much time as you think it will and expect to have to continually revise and adjust as you go.

    Six, What association costs are involved? Independent? Then what can you offer your students in growth and opportunities in your school? This really falls under point five, but I split it out.

    That's just off the top of my head. Want more? Sure, not a problem. Pay me to write you a business plan. As a consultant, I ask for $150 per hour. But you can get pretty much what I can offer from the local agencies I mentioned. Or you can go online and find the martial arts business organizations that offer canned programs, like ATAMA.

    I'm against commercial dojo for the most part, very seldom have I seen one where I would want to train. But that's my personal issue, not yours.

    Running a school is hard work, and something I choose not to dot. If you go ahead with the plan to open a school, then I do sincerely wish you good luck.

    And do sign your name, it is a forum rule.
    Last edited by Neil Yamamoto; 18th December 2007 at 22:59. Reason: spelling and grammar errors

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    Jai,

    Neils Advice is very, very good.
    ____________
    Aric Keith

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    Default Starting A Dojo

    In my own personal experience my 1st attempt which looking back was fairly successful I taught classes at a rec center. Pros-- no overhead--free advertising---
    cons---limited price setting which didnt allow for much profit
    availability of scheduling---had to work around already established programs
    ---some equipment usually not top of the line----matts

    2nd adventure---rented my own building---complete disaster---barely made the rent....good location but not enough people to promote growth
    total time 1 yr...if its not karate of bjj currently you will have hard time keeping students around...

    3rd attempt---I now rent space from a judo club...set rate for however many hours I want..matts already there..utilities already paid..

    established martial arts location....signage in the window...
    the best of all worlds...

    I would suggest no3 if I was trying to start from scratch. This way you limit your financial obligation after 6 months if you are just expanding tremendously then you can look at moving. All fulltime schools for the most part have some downtime and any good business person is looking for a way to make the most use of their facility. Also you could try a local college however most college students are on a tight budget...

    whichever you decide just have the patience to let your student base develop.

    sincerely
    greg weathers
    fuga dojo cho

  11. #11
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    I have begun the process to organize as a non-profit corp. I have been operating at a loss for about 2 years so I might as well. I'm going to have to run a tighter ship regarding records and documentation but I like the advantages of being a nonprofit corp.
    Ricky Wood

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulsablackman View Post
    I need some hep or ideas of running a good dojo from the ground up, I tried in the past but failed, but this time I am determine to make it work. Can anybody come up with some ideas? As from who the classes need to run,paperwork, and prices. I can get an location that no problem, I just need some with the atmosphere of being a true school. Anything ideas will help me.

    Thanks!
    Notwithstanding the good advice you have received, nevertheless you must give consideration first to your personal/family circumstances and any full time job that you may have.

    If you do not have a full time job and intend running the dojo as a business then the advice given is good for a starting point.

    If you do have employment and the dojo is a sideline then you need to give very serious consideration to the fundamentals of running a business. I am assuming you do not, but stand corrected.

    Firstly, you must ascertain if there is a market there for your services.

    Then you have to establish exactly what it is you are offering and how you will deliver. This is a commercial enterprise.

    You have to penetrate the market, which will cost money in terms of advertising. Therefore, you need a small marketing plan.

    You must have a sound financial base to start off with and prepare your business plan and forecasts and measure them each month. However, if you are seeking funding from a bank my advice in the first instance is never put up a personal guarantee. Always try and get the money from another guarantee free source.

    Once you have established there is a market and you have prepared a business plan you need to find a good location. Business is always about location, location, location.

    Then you have to sustain it. Research reveals that over 60% of new businesses fail in the first three years, so all your plans must be carefully thought and adhered to, but be flexible whenever the situation demands. For example, do not take on a long lease.

    Alternatively, you can do what one of my sensei does; asks for nothing and if something is left in an envelope for him he is a happy man.

    Good luck in your endeavours.

    Osu
    Trevor
    Trevor Gilbert
    ("If I had to select one quality, one personal characteristic that I regard as being most highly correlated with success, whatever the field, I would pick the trait of persistence. Determination. The will to endure to the end, to get knocked down seventy times and get up off the floor saying "Here goes number seventy-one" - Richard M. DeVos)

  13. #13
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    Neil gave some excellent advice.

    I am ending year one of my school. I opened my Aikido dojo in the New York metropolitan area- an expensive part of the country. The most important thing that I did was to spend well over one year developing a business plan. Simply put, the single most important thing that you can do is to take the time to put a business plan together. That encompasses certain areas. What schools are in your area? What do they charge? What arts to they teach? What do you expect to pay in monthly rental? What do you expect to pay in monthly utilities? Insurance costs -> general liability and martial arts liability. Legal cost? Other costs? What is your initial marketing budget- you need to spend in order to make. If you wait to make before you spend, you will probably sink. When you have an estimate of what your costs might be, add a 25% buffer. Then when you decide what you will charge, you will know how many students it will take to break even.

    You will need to invest a large chunk of change for the initial start-up and have access to a years worth of expenses. The lack of financial support in the beginning sinks most start-up businesses. When you start bringing money in, you should focus on developing a savings account with at least three months of expenses before altering any aspect of your business plan. Remember the famous martial arts adage: In order to make a small pot of money in teaching the martial arts, you must be willing to spend a large pot of money!

    So, what has happened with me: I was fortunate to find a landlord who offered me space to house my professional business (psychology offices), and my martial arts business at 1/2 to 1/3 market value. My commute time is reduced to nothing between businesses. Extra office to sublet to start. My construction costs ran at least twice as much as I expected them to be.

    Opened 1/6/07. April of '07, I met my expenses from the number of students and found sublet my space after my hours to Tai Chi person. This year ends with my three month buffer in the bank, money to have put up a great website (found a fantastic price for a good designer- go to www.aasbk.com to view site and look at developer). I have twice as many students as necessary to break even.

    My '08 business plan will put more money on direct marketing (post cards), begin to make small payments back to me for the construction loans. I have an S corp so the initial debts were a great tax write off. I have begun drawing salary through private and semi-private lessons and will be able to draw salary from classes by mid-year.

    My business plan has a four to six year transition from primarily working as a psychologist to primarily working as an Aikido teacher. My initial business plan was to achieve breaking even by the end of year one. I am ahead of this plan so far and am hoping to stay ahead of the plan.

    I can not emphasize strongly enough: MAKE THE PLAN, WORK THE PLAN! winging a business without a plan is simply foolish. It is better to work a plan than to react to what is.

    Marc Abrams
    Dr. Marc Abrams
    www.aasbk.com

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    Listen to Dr. Mark.

    Plan! Hire a professional business consultant (me!), or take the long, arduous route of doing it yourself. It is simply a must. Any success you have without planning is relying on blind luck.


    Terry D. Miller, MBA (Finance/Entrepreneurship)
    3rd Millennium Incorporated
    "Your Future - Our Solutions"
    Terry Miller

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