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Thread: Is there any connection between Suio-ryu and Shinto Muso-ryu?

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    Default Is there any connection between Suio-ryu and Shinto Muso-ryu?

    Is there any sort of connection between the jojutsu of Suio-ryu and Shinto Muso-ryu? Any at all? Either historically or more modern? None whatsoever?
    Fredrik Hall
    "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." /Confucius

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred27 View Post
    Is there any sort of connection between the jojutsu of Suio-ryu and Shinto Muso-ryu? Any at all? Either historically or more modern? None whatsoever?
    According to Antony Cundy's article in Kendo World on the Tradition (Classical Warrior Traditions of Japan: Part 6, Suio Ryu, 水鴎流, Vol. 2 No.2):

    "As a child Yoichizaemon studied the swordsmanship of the Bokuden Ryu, founded by Tsukuhara Bokuden, as well as a form of jojutsu practiced by Yamabushi, mountain warrior priests, called Kongo Jo Joho."

    Based on that information, it would appear there is none.
    Britt Nichols
    Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo® USA Shibu

    AiTe wa Baka Ja Nai

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    Sounds like a question for Matsumura Shigehiro. According to http://www.kobujodokai-usa.org/kobujodokai.html --

    Master Matsumura has received the Gomokuroku license to teach Shindo Muso ryu Jojutsu from Master Shimizu, and then the Menkyo Kaiden license from Master Otofuji. Moreover, he has received Menkyo license to teach Suio ryu Joho, Naginata-jutsu and Kyoha ryu Bojutsu from the late Master Mitsuyasu Katsuse from Shizuoka.
    I vaguely remember seeing a youtube clip of Matsumura doing a Suioryu jojutsu demo, but don't have the link handy.

    Edit: Found the link -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSodKrQp6m4
    Last edited by will; 30th December 2007 at 07:27. Reason: Added link
    Will Schutt

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    Quote Originally Posted by will View Post
    Sounds like a question for Matsumura Shigehiro. According to http://www.kobujodokai-usa.org/kobujodokai.html --



    I vaguely remember seeing a youtube clip of Matsumura doing a Suioryu jojutsu demo, but don't have the link handy.

    Edit: Found the link -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSodKrQp6m4
    Ah! Thats the clip I had in mind! I knew it was on YouTube but the search-tags are all in kanji so it didnt come up.

    The jo section of the above clip is what first made me wonder if there is some relation between SMR and Suio-ryu. I know of course that many ryu share the same generic movements and techniques, but in this case it kinda stuck out in my mind. The first jojutsu kata in the above clip for instance looks like almost identical to one of our Tanjojutsu kata (which was developed from SMR and its sub-arts).

    I guess if there is no official connection between the two ryu then the similarities are prolly just an example of shared generic technical aspects.

    *edit*

    its a very VERY good clip by the way. It really made me curious about Suio-ryu. Too bad there is no SR dojo in Sweden.
    Fredrik Hall
    "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." /Confucius

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    Well looking at the clip I'd say that there wasn't much in the kata presented that would disagree with SMR Fred. I don't know much about the training of Matsumura sensei but if he's menkyo in both SMR and Suio I'd expect exactly that.

    Don't feel too bad about not having other ryu to practice, concentrate on your own and you'll be able to pick stuff like this up very easily when you do get the chance. In fact you could probably work these kata out from the video and using the movement principles you already know.

    Kim Taylor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Taylor View Post
    Don't feel too bad about not having other ryu to practice, concentrate on your own and you'll be able to pick stuff like this up very easily when you do get the chance. In fact you could probably work these kata out from the video and using the movement principles you already know.

    Kim Taylor
    Actually I'm more interested in watching Suio-ryu and perhaps ask the Sensei a few questions in person than to train in it. I got enough ryu to train locally.
    Fredrik Hall
    "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." /Confucius

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred27 View Post
    Actually I'm more interested in watching Suio-ryu and perhaps ask the Sensei a few questions in person than to train in it. I got enough ryu to train locally.
    Good on ya!

    Suio ryu is quite enjoyable to watch - and it has a ton of techniques. I understand there's some mini-boom in it overseas. Don't know how that works, there aren't many dojo in Japan, either.

    Matsumura sensei is a joy to watch in either Suio ryu or Shinto Muso ryu - he's a tremendous technician.
    Lance Gatling ガトリング
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    Default Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo

    For information on Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo® in the United States, please visit our website:

    http://suioryu-usa.org/
    Britt Nichols
    Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo® USA Shibu

    AiTe wa Baka Ja Nai

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    Default Suio Ryu® Jo

    The jo work in the video I recognize as definately being of Suio Ryu® deriviation. The clip was filmed at the annual Koden Taikai of the tradition, held every October in Fujiade (sp?) City in Shizuoka.
    Brian Stokes
    Dojocho - Suio Ryu of Iai Kenpo®, San Diego
    www.suioryu-bu-rai-an-dojo.org

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