Kokikai? What is it?

[stanley neptune]

How is Kokikai Aikido different from other Aikido? A couple of schools have popped up in the Boston area lately. It seems to have a higher proportion of women practioners/instructors.

Thanks

Stanley Neptune

[kenkyusha]

IIRC, when Maruyama sensei (a direct student of K. Tohei, sensei, before his schism w/Aikikai) arrived in the States, he came to believe that his waza didn't function as well as he would have liked:

Aikido Kokikai website. HTH.

Be well,
Jigme

[stanley neptune]

So what did he do? Make his waza more functional? On the web site he was bummed out to find out his techniques did not work when people resisted. Join the club sensei!!!!!!!!!! Does kokikai use resistance in practice. If it does that sounds good to me. That would add a degree of realism to the training. And probably make it more effective as a means of self defense.

Stanley Neptune

[ckramos]

I do Kokikai...and the uke ( throwing dummy / me ) do a lot of resistance. So the attacker has to do more to take me off of center, usually an extra step will do it. Another Aikido yudansha went and visited us ( because he was in the area and wanted to practice ), he could do the movements and all, but had a hard time making people go down. The instructor told him to take one step farther out and the uke submitted to gravity. At static ( as oppose to grab lunging ) the uke also tries to slap, trip, touch the tori ( technique guy ), unless they got me in a wrist lock .

[stanley neptune]

So it sounds like Kokikai is more aggressive? Can you use aggressive and Aikido in the same breath? Would you want to use aggressive and Aikido in the same breath?

I guess the beauty of it is that it is not agressive.

But there is always the question of effectiveness. To each his own.

Stanley Neptune

[ckramos]

It's not aggressive like kendo; which I do. And it's also not Pride Fighting.

The word 'beauty' was not in my mind during sankyo ( super wrist lock ), but it did come up when I watched Kyudo on YouTube; the clips from Japan not the White Rose Society.

[Ron Tisdale]

So it sounds like Kokikai is more aggressive? Can you use aggressive and Aikido in the same breath? Would you want to use aggressive and Aikido in the same breath?

Why not? Some people find yoshinkan aggresive. Personally, the little experience I have with Kokikai, I would not call it aggressive.

To each his own.

Stanley Neptune

True, dat.

B,
R

[Lance Gatling]

I do Kokikai...and the uke ( throwing dummy / me ) do a lot of resistance. So the attacker has to do more to take me off of center, usually an extra step will do it. Another Aikido yudansha went and visited us ( because he was in the area and wanted to practice ), he could do the movements and all, but had a hard time making people go down. The instructor told him to take one step farther out and the uke submitted to gravity. At static ( as oppose to grab lunging ) the uke also tries to slap, trip, touch the tori ( technique guy ), unless they got me in a wrist lock .

I know.... let's call it kuzushi!

Naaahhhh..... it's been done before. Read anything about judo, it's all there.

Seems in my limited experience with junior Aikikai types is that real kuzushi isn't introduced until they're really advanced, and they're always surprised when uke isn't swept away by their ki, or whatever is supposed to happen when they start moving. But try many of those moves on any decent judoka, and if he's centered, he's simply not going to move without kuzushi.

Seems to me that Kokikai might be interesting.

And one person's 'aggressive' might be another person's 'effective'.

[Amir]

"Aggressive", "soft", "hard", "effective"

We use so many words, for describing our Aikido, each with different connotations, positive and negative depending on the person.

Getting impressions from words is problematic.

Amir



And on the previous note:
The way I am taught, an Aikido technique should actually force Uke to fall or suffer the damage (and still leave Tori in a superior position). Kuzushi is a must, and so are many other things, without which, techniques become simply wrong.
But, demanding all of those things from a beginner is a sure way to frustrate him and make him use excessive force to no effect most of the times (or injure his training partner by chance). The "pass criteria" for the technique depends on the level of Tori, and should be such that will give him good learning feedback.
Obviously, it is impossible to judge the real "pass criteria" of someone whose level is significantly higher then yours. Yet, about half the time, Uke is less experienced then Tori and must make his own judgment call. In those cases, Uke may decide to fall from “belt fear” seen this too often, or he may decide to hold on no matter what, and then pass beyond the damage threshold (pain and damage can appear together).
Reality is even more complex since an advanced Tori has to adjust the technique intensity to one Uke could receive safely.
I have been in many awkward situations created by the above, from people falling for no reason to people resisting to the point they later can not train for months .