interesting old jiujitsu video

[bu-kusa]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eViBnL...eature=related

Gracie Family Video from the early 50's shows early gracie jiujitsu, interestingly many of the self defence parts look very like classical jujutsu.
Any thoughts?

[Steve Delaney]

The self-defence aspects are more like pre-war goshinjutsu from Kodokan judo, than koryu jujutsu. You'll see the very same dagger defence using ude garami in W.E. Fairbarn's Get Tough (Fairbarn was a 2nd dan at the Kodokan and possibly studied some koryu as well.) as well as a good number of other WW2 hand to hand combat manuals.

It's most likely to be pre-war Kodokan vintage.

[MikeWilliams]

That's a fabulous film - thanks for sharing.

I particularly love Carlos's flying armbar and the helicopter armbar "seated defence", and the Charles Atlas scenario at the end. Old skool kool.

As to the self-defence aspects looking like jujutsu/goshinjutsu - are you surprised? I'm not.

I'm more surprised at the amount of hacking, "koka judo" in the first matchup of the clip. Take it to the ground already, boys! Spare your poor shins!

[bu-kusa]

The self-defence aspects are more like pre-war goshinjutsu from Kodokan judo, than koryu jujutsu. You'll see the very same dagger defence using ude garami in W.E. Fairbarn's Get Tough (Fairbarn was a 2nd dan at the Kodokan and possibly studied some koryu as well.) as well as a good number of other WW2 hand to hand combat manuals.

It's most likely to be pre-war Kodokan vintage.

Thanks for the info, I was thinking there probobly a big goshin waza / judo link but ive only ever seen them in books and not up close. Still after watching it it feels very jujutsu (incl judo here) like to me.

[Ellis Amdur]

Interesting that Georges Mehdi is described as a student of the Gracies. In most accounts, he is considered the top judo man in Brazil, a personal student of Kimura.
Best

[MikeWilliams]

According to this link, Mehdi studied with the Gracies before taking up judo and forging his own path (and some rivalries): http://www.geocities.com/global_trai...port/mehdi.htm

[Prince Loeffler]

I have never seen Helio look tall in this video Great vintage stuff. I like the Beach Scene (ala charles atlas ) commercial with their own twist. Man, I must be getting old to remember Charles Atlas !

[George Kohler]

According to this link, Mehdi studied with the Gracies before taking up judo and forging his own path (and some rivalries): http://www.geocities.com/global_trai...port/mehdi.htm

No, not before.

He studied Judo in France before moving to Brazil. He couldn't find a judo dojo so he started training with the Gracies. But, it was only for a few years.

1949 to 1952 isn't a very long time.

Kastriot “George” Mehdi came to Rio on vacation from the south coast of France, near Cannes, in 1949. He decided to stay. He had studied judo before, in France, and wanted to continue. There was judo in São Paulo among the Japanese immigrant community, but in Rio, the closest thing to judo was jiu-jitsu.

[Jitsumania]

Thank you so much Paul for posting such a wonderful Vid. Always really enjoy seeing the "old school" at work. The Tachi waza, Newaza and defenses were great to watch.

[MikeWilliams]

No, not before.

He studied Judo in France before moving to Brazil. He couldn't find a judo dojo so he started training with the Gracies. But, it was only for a few years.

1949 to 1952 isn't a very long time.

My mistake. I remembered the article, but not the detail, from ages ago and posted it without re-reading.

I have no idea what (other than a dislike of BJJ) Mehdi took from the Gracies, but three years is a decent amount of time for a young, talented and competitive person.

[George Kohler]

I have no idea what (other than a dislike of BJJ) Mehdi took from the Gracies, but three years is a decent amount of time for a young, talented and competitive person.

It all depends on when in 1949 he finished his vacation and decided to stay. Not to mention other factors like how frequent his training was. It could have been the end of 1949 when he started (It doesn't say). He also said he left for Japan when there was no more occupation. That would be April 28, 1952. So I'm not sure that it could be a complete 2 or 3 years.

[Jeff Cook]

Excellent find. I greatly enjoyed that film. Thanks! Old-school judo definitely.

I am surprised that nobody here criticized the knife defense demo.

Jeff Cook

[Jay Vail]

Excellent find. I greatly enjoyed that film. Thanks! Old-school judo definitely.

I am surprised that nobody here criticized the knife defense demo.

Jeff Cook

Interesting that you find the knife defenses weak. They are very similar, if not identical in some cases, to defenses shown in medieval/renaissance fighting manuals such as Fiore, Marozzo and Meyer.

[Jeff Cook]

Interesting that you find the knife defenses weak. They are very similar, if not identical in some cases, to defenses shown in medieval/renaissance fighting manuals such as Fiore, Marozzo and Meyer.

Interesting that you assume I find the knife defenses to be weak! I was commenting on what a usually tough crowd the folks are here regarding weapons defenses.

Jeff Cook

[Earl Hartman]

Interesting. Some of the stuff had a bit of a Nagao Ryu flavor to it, especially the finish with the assailant on his back and his leg/foot locked under the victor's armpit.